She should have been found not guilty by reason of insanity. That doesn't mean she goes home, but she spends years, if not decades in a mental health facility.
Idk how people listening to the facts think she was in her right mind.
expert witness who works with her in the hospital:
"Lindsay has bad days and worse days" that woman will never be well enough to leave the hospital. stop acting like she's going to be on the streets next week if she got a not guilty verdict and went back to the hospital
They absolutely do- they don’t have to prove that this episode has cleared, but that she’s no longer a danger to ever have another episode. You have any idea the kinds of treatments and how long it takes for doctors to attest someone who’d had one psychotic break will not have another?
Andrea Yates has declined evaluations that could lead to her release, and Massachusetts law is different in that Clancy's case would be reviewed yearly and if they found her no longer psychotic or suicidal, she would be released
That doesn't mean she goes home, but she spends years, if not decades in a mental health facility.
Or 6 months to 2 years, depending on her eval, and we all know how the eval would go, given it's already said she currently doesn't have psychosis. She'd get out stupidly fast.
Personally, if I killed my kids in psychosis, then came out of it, I wouldn't even try to get out of punishment. I can't fathom how she's just sitting there, not trying to self destruct every 20 minutes.
That's actually insane. You killed your kids, and you have no visceral reaction to it? What?
nah bro she was guilty. she knew it was wrong. yea she was obv depressed and in a bad state but that doesn’t excuse it. for example people who shoot up schools obviously they’re depressed and fucked yo but are they insane? no. literally how convenient she was insane when she killed them and never said anything about voices before or after and now she’s fine and able to act normal
Her doctors literally told the rest of the family not to leave her alone or with the kids due to the intrusive issues. Yes, there was a good amount of evidence regarding her mental health prior to the crime.
mental health being bad is not equivalent to being insane, if that were the case then any depressed and intrusive individual could get away with murder
No, it is not the same. But hers was so bad doctors made sure to act to try to prevent the exact scenario (her being left alone with the kids) because they believed that was a threat to safety. And then the psychosis claim, which kinda matches up but I;m not a doc and can’t dx.
editing cause my last post felt harsh but I just don’t see enough evidence that insane people are thinking about lawyers and their legs being straight. wanting a lawyer in my opinion is evidence of knowing they did something wrong
like people need to put their sympathy in a box and put it away. yes it sad yes it brings up a conversation around post partum but lindsay Clancy was not insane and I believe that without a shadow of a doubt
The diagnosis she claimed is literally a temporary one, and she doesn't have any more children to harm. I don't know why you assume they wouldn't approve her release.
Children are everywhere? And hormones can swing around at the best of times,
I have a family member in the state mental health system, who certifies folks with disorders once you have one psychotic break, you’re on watch for years to decades. If it was violent, decades.
That black woman was failed by the Justice system (as is expected) and thankfully, they’re reopening her case in light of these new events.
Making sure ANOTHER person is failed by the justice system doesn’t fix anything. The issue with institutional racism in the prison industrial complex system isn’t that it too soft on white people, it’s that it’s TOO HARSH on black people.
This tit for tat mindset is exactly what the excessively carceral American prison system is based on and what we should be advocating against.
But was she failed? This was a wealthy white woman who had a nanny, had a psychiatrist, took medication, and admitted to having thoughts about hurting her children and didn't remove herself from the home. How's she a victim? I'm just struggling to see why she deserves an ounce of sympathy for murdering 3 children. Interesting how the entire conversation is about how Lindsay could have been better served but what about the kids who were deprived of life?
I didn’t mean Clancy was failed. I said the black woman, Latarsha, was the one failed by the system and she should have gotten the same FAIR treatment Clancy is getting (Which thankfully she is).
I’m ambivalent to Clancy specifically. My response is about what I believe justice looks like, and it’s not based on revenge. Putting a mentally ill woman in prison doesn’t do anything for those children. So, my sympathy for them is exactly why I’m more concerned with how do we prevent situations like this, instead of advocating for a spite based response (which is all your comment does).
My sympathy is also for other women who are struggling and don’t have anywhere close to the resources Clancy got as a result of her privilege, and thus didn’t get a fair shot in this justice system. Not just women, but black people in general with serious mental health issues who often end up in prison instead of getting the help they need.
I just feel like it's really easy to have sympathy for violent mentally ill people when you've never been a victim of their violence. I have. Mental illness isn't an excuse to be violent and she and Latasha should be in prison.
That is a big assumption you’re making about me. I don’t see someone, who clearly needs mental healthcare, rotting in prison as “justice” even when it comes to those who hurt me. Revenge =/= justice.
Also, psychosis (the alleged situation in these cases) is a unique situation compared to other mental illnesses. I think a lot of people don’t understand what it’s like and think it’s just like a ptsd episode or something, and attribute agency to the person experiencing it that doesn’t exist.
Edit:
Mental illness isn't an excuse to be violent and she and Latasha should be in prison.
also stop using Latarsha as a gotcha in this thread when you’re going to say stuff like that. You clearly don’t give af about black people who were treated unfairly by the system if you think this.
I love how white people always try to defend their positions by playing the "two wrongs don't make a right card" after disenfranchising the entire black community forever and a half. I'm not saying I agree, I'm saying I can understand with why they continue to feel they aren't heard and aren't treated fairly, because well, they still aren't!! Funny how that works
I’m not a white person. I literally have the black check mark i got when we were still just doing it as an April fools joke. (When white people were first starting to really take over this sub, before it became an actual permanent thing). That’s how long I’ve had it.
I’m just a prison abolitionist, like many Afrocentric academics before me
Conservatives are PISSED at the 11 jurors and are praising the Black dude. Race was not part of the conversation here until the Black male juror was announced as the holdout.
You are naive. Lindsay got the sympathy she did because she's a white woman. Black woman did the same thing and went to prison. It's been about race since the beginning
It wasn't the same. One was diagnosed as mentally unstable before the crime; the other woman was diagnosed after the crime. The judge didn't let evidence into the court for the Black woman, and maybe race played into it. Although the situations were different. But both juries acted on the information given. This juror was out of line regardless of what the judge did his past cases.
Latarsha Sanders has been given a new trail btw. We should want better for Black people not worse for whites.
Because it doesn’t. What about the American judicial makes you think anything is “working?”
It just reinforces the prison industrial complex and makes access to proper mental health care more inaccessible which will only further disenfranchise more of us
In this case it seems to be drawing attention to the discrepancy. Is that bad? We already know how apathetic Americans are to injustice. If this one brings light to others why is that bad?
What use is drawing attention to the discrepancy to Latarsha Sanders if people are saying “there for Clancy should be in prison?” My issue isn’t highlighting the discrepancy, it’s the spite politics that do nothing but temporarily soothe the outrage.
This would be like saying that because the police are WAY more likely to use disproportionate force against us and we end up with situations like George Floyd and Brianna Taylor, the police should be beating up and/or shooting more white people too.
No! They should not be using disproportionate force against ANYONE and they should be held accountable when they do so unjustly.
The use is that NOBODY GAVE A FUCK WHEN IT WAS BLACK PEOPLE. Now they can say "Well let's look at the policy because there's a problem here" Let's reopen that case .. for the sake of fairness... Now that we... Know better.
I said that’s fine, highlighting the discrepancy to resolve the injustice is ok.
But that’s not what you said “why not” to. They were criticizing someone who was saying Clancy SHOULD go to jail too instead of advocating Latarsha should have her case reopened.
That person has also gone on to admit that they want Latarsha to stay in prison, they just want Clancy to join her. Which is a perfect demonstration of my point and why this pov doesn’t result in wrongs being made right. It just reinforces the wrong as justified for more people
You HAVE NO point. You have no grounds to stand on as the entire history of this nation is AT ODDS with your point. Your point is whimsy and wishes. Not allowing Clancy to be insane while Latarsha is in prison is a DIRECT ACTION with tangible results as far as I'm concerned. I don't care about your little feelings. No one does. If people cared about what's right and fair and ending injustice... How then can we explain the way our country is won? All we will ever have is tit-for-tat game theory.
Murderers are seldom in their right minds, the question is whether she understood the difference between right and wrong in the moment, that’s what determines whether she should be found guilty or not.
I’m having a hard time believing this woman just so happened to suffer from a rare disorder that is perfectly able to explain all of her behavior. Not only is PPP very rare on its own, but it almost never presents after 3 months have passed since the mother gave birth:
Lindsay Clancy did not present her alleged first instance of the disorder until 8 MONTHS after she gave birth, and it just so happened to coincide with the murders of all three of her children.
As if that wasn’t already enough to make the whole defense seem suspicious, it gets even more ridiculous:
Knowing that a psychotic episode wasn’t enough to completely absolve her of responsibility (people in the midst of psychotic episodes are often able to still distinguish right from wrong, even in an abstract sense), her defense claims that she had what is called a “command hallucination”. In this particular hallucination, a male voice ordered her to kill her children and then herself.
The real kicker is that there are no official medical records of her reporting any such voice previously, and she has not since reported hearing such a voice at any point after the murders.
I think Lindsay was a very depressed woman who knew she was going to kill herself and decided her children would be better off dead than in a world without their mother. I think that is infinitely more likely then the incredibly convenient and extraordinarily rare set of mental disorders the defense is claiming.
Is her being depressed and wanting to kill herself and her children incredibly sad and tragic? Absolutely. Does it mean she didn’t know the difference between right and wrong in the moment? I’m not buying that at all.
She made her husband go out on a errand before she started. She took a phone call in the middle of strangling her children. She tried to kill herself after. So she was able to snap out of an episode long enough to plan it, then again to take a call, and then feel bad enough to kill herself? She could have just started with herself and allowed 3 children to grow up.
She would never see decades in a mental health facility. In 40 days they would evaluate her and if they deem her as no threat to the public, she's released.
Edited to add: she lied to her doctors on multiple occasions about her meds and if she was taking them.
She planned it in less than a day. And yes, a psychotic episode can last long or short.
It's clear you haven't researched the case, so I'll stop arguing after these two points
It's on the prosecution in MA to prove that she was in her RIGHT mind. Any reasonable doubt against that means she should not be convicted.
"She could have just started with herself and allowed 3 children to grow up."
She literally said the voice in her head said, "This is your last chance. You have to kill the kids so you can kill yourself," & the voice told her that neither she nor her children would be safe unless she obeyed the command.
Thats the big part for me. The reason she would do it with her husband away (so he wouldn't stop her, because she knew it was wrong and that he would try to stop her), the reason she would kill herself after, (because she knew she was going to jail for the murders) the reason she took his call in the middle of the killings (again to prevent him from stopping her)
She acted in a way that someone who knew their actions were immoral would act. she knew right from wrong.
agree she knew it was wrong people have never actually analyzed or met insane ppl have they? like it’s funny actually insane people sometimes even turn themselves in like they’re literally living in another reality. acting as if lindsay was insane is an abuse of the law
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u/Themanstall ☑️ BHM Donor 20h ago
Homie was wrong.
She should have been found not guilty by reason of insanity. That doesn't mean she goes home, but she spends years, if not decades in a mental health facility.
Idk how people listening to the facts think she was in her right mind.