Of getting man fired because he won't touch your gender?

[u/Aeryn-Sun-Is-My-Girl]

[u/mistermasterbates]

She gave a fair response of not shaking hands with anyone, as otherwise it would be extremely disrespectful to your clients and coworkers to shake hands with the men in front of them, then subsequently blatantly refuse to shake hands with the women. It's ok if that's your religion or whatever, but if he's gonna refuse the easy solution, he's kinda firing himself.

[u/Olliegreen__ → u/mistermasterbates]

It’s also something that would probably lead to medical malpractice if the guy won’t even shake a woman’s hand.

[u/Chosen-For-What → u/Olliegreen__]

Wouldn’t he also not be able to treat women?

[u/Bashfullylascivious → u/Chosen-For-What]

No, he can. He can touch the female form for medical treatment. It's viewed as medical practice, and objective. He can not however touch a woman on personal or casual whim.

As with most religious things, it's more modern interpretation, as a show of respect for both the unfamiliar woman, and the familial women in his life like his wife (if married), and over time has been twisted/regressed to former by some ultra religious stans to mean you don't touch the inferior woman.

[u/i_love_sparkle → u/Bashfullylascivious]

Why doesn't he just wear a hand condom that doctors wear during surgery? Is he stupid

[u/cflatjazz → u/i_love_sparkle]

Because the reason he doesn't touch women isn't about cleanliness... or technicalities

[u/Bashfullylascivious → u/i_love_sparkle]

It's the act of touching for the sake of touching.
I mean whether you're having casual pleasurable sex with or without a condom, it's still sex.
If you're having sex because you're selling your skills, a condom will protect you and the client from disease, most likely, you're not enjoying it with intention (no matter what the client thinks).

[u/Expensive-Day-3551 → u/i_love_sparkle]

A hand condom? Do you mean a glove?

[u/SecretaryOtherwise → u/Expensive-Day-3551]

No glove no love

[u/SheepherderSilver655 → u/Expensive-Day-3551]

No, a hand condom. A condom you wear on your hand. Duh.

[u/Honeycrispcombe → u/Bashfullylascivious]

It's not really a show of respect. You can shake hands with someone without being overcome by lust.

I don't care if someone observes that practice, but there's no definitive interpretation of it and at the end of the day it's treating the other sex as a radioactive lust bomb, which is pretty dehumanizing.

[u/DrunkGuy9million → u/Honeycrispcombe]

To be fair, you can do that, and I can do that. But it’s entirely possible that the guy in question is incapable of shaking hands with a woman without being overcome by lust.

[u/Classic-Push1323 → u/DrunkGuy9million]

That’s a very concerning trait for a doctor. I hope that’s not the case. 

[u/ProfessionalManner55 → u/Bashfullylascivious]

Religion is so fucking stupid. All of it.

[u/TheDoktorIsIn → u/ProfessionalManner55]

It's fun when you get these whitewashed versions of the origin of the rules as if they weren't meant to diminish women.

Remember, the first code of justice humanity had (Akkadian, Code of Hammurabi) said as a man it was legal to sell your wife into slavery. But only for 3 years! 4 is too much obvi.

It also had different rates for harming men vs women. I forget the exact figures but it was about half as many pieces of silver (shekels, which was a defined measurement of silver 0.2oz I think?) if you hurt a woman vs if you hurt a man. It's legalized patriarchy!

[u/Roncryn → u/TheDoktorIsIn]

Don’t forget that if a man is caught cheating the woman can divorce him, but if a woman is caught cheating she gets thrown in the river.

[u/Last-Recording-6725 → u/TheDoktorIsIn]

Of course it is, all the way back then you needed incentives to get men to die for you. What better way to do that than to make them legally superior. The whole point of clan type social structures is there's always someone lower than you so you can take the frustrations out on them just like the ones above do to you.

[u/mmskyscraper → u/Last-Recording-6725]

Just like in baboon troops!

And we think we are so evolved...

[u/calilac → u/mmskyscraper]

Naked monkeys with anxiety.

[u/ElectricSliderz → u/calilac]

Nibbler: And so, life returned to normal, or at least as normal as it gets in this primitive dirtball inhabited by psychotic apes. Thanks to the effects of the brain waves, the people of Earth have no memory of what had transpired, except Fry, and no one believed him or cared what he had to say. I, meanwhile, returned to my post, ever vigilant, lest Earth again come under brain attack. And when that day comes, God help us. God help us all. Leela: Time for a diapie change. Nibbler: End transmission.

[u/Ctenophorever → u/Last-Recording-6725]

Why would men need to be dying for anyone? You cannot seriously be suggesting women initiated the patriarchy?

[u/Demyk7 → u/Ctenophorever]

I wonder what could have gone so wrong in your brain to make you think they're implying that women are the ones the men are dying for.

[u/Intrepid_Bobcat_2931 → u/Ctenophorever]

Do you understand that men were expected to fight wars and (if necessary) die in them?

[u/_learned_foot_ → u/TheDoktorIsIn]

If he was unmarried it was the same value. You were paying him or her for his or her loss (or his estate), and her for losing him if he was married. He was her source of income. Same reason there was a dowry, lawfully speaking in early cultures if the relationship ended she got it to support herself going forward (hence in many cultures it's productive animals, you can hire help on that profit).

It was literally a method of welfare.

[u/EnvironmentNo4777 → u/Olliegreen__]

There's nothing medical about a handshake, my friend. ;)

An MD is a managing director. 

[u/Olliegreen__ → u/EnvironmentNo4777]

How the fuck do you know that it is managing director and not medical doctor?

[u/EnvironmentNo4777 → u/Olliegreen__]

Because that's the much, much more common reason to be someone's boss's boss's boss...

How the fuck do you know it's a medical doctor?

[u/magicaltrevor953 → u/EnvironmentNo4777]

Also talking about the Equality Act places it in the UK (EDIT: Likely places it in the UK), and MD is a much more common abbreviation for Managing Director than Medical Doctor.

[u/Redditauro → u/mistermasterbates]

This. The reason is not that he is a sexist asshole, the reason is that he is a sexist asshole and he refuse to adapt a little bit to don't create problems to the company. 

[u/LilJonny2cookies → u/Redditauro]

So how would he deal with female patients? Sorry but if you are in the West you need to drop that 7th century wackadoodle mindset.

Totally supportive of this rescinding of employment. And in some of their countries they won’t let women get educated so if they won’t touch women do women just not get medical care? Barbaric.

[u/Drunk_Lemon → u/LilJonny2cookies]

Luckily a lot of people with that twisted mindset either do not become a medical professional or they quickly change their insane mindset because it's hard to keep a mindset like that when you work in a field where you will need to touch women on the regular. But not all do change their tune from what I've heard and thus women do not always get properly examined.

[u/MartyrOfDespair → u/Drunk_Lemon]

Honestly, a medical doctor remaining religious makes me extremely suspicious of their skill at medicine. I mean come on, the only way you could actually know how the human body works and believe this fucking shitshow is designed is if you specifically believed it was developed by someone kicked in the head by a horse. It sure as fuck can’t be intelligent design, because the human body is goddamn idiotic.

You know we have the genetic code to repair our spines but it’s turned off because our bodies are too bad at it and are more likely to kill us? We have an organ that explodes with bacteria if we don’t need it often enough. Our spines are a goddamn nightmare. Our knees are a goddamn nightmare. Bipedalism is clearly a jury-rigged system hacked together out of a quadruped, because it’s fucking busted. And you’re going to try to say this trash has an intelligent designer? Either it’s the most sadistic designer ever and we’re here just to suffer, the designer is dumber than an orange cat, or there isn’t one.

[u/vibe51 → u/MartyrOfDespair]

To be fair. If I remember right most of all the famous scientists, inventors, engineers that pioneered science as we know today were all religious or became religious. Which is fascinating that those people who have the deepest understanding of how the work works mathematically scientifically biologically chemically physically still have roots or grew closer to religion despite that knowledge.

[u/noethers_raindrop → u/MartyrOfDespair]

While you have a point, not every religion involves the idea that a benevolent god designed the human body.

[u/Sweet-Ant-3471 → u/MartyrOfDespair]

I've never really heard this before --- does the spine repair gene work in quadrupeds?

[u/Pristine-Setting-836 → u/Sweet-Ant-3471]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/06/260617032207.htm

[u/your_moms_a_clone → u/MartyrOfDespair]

Most doctors in the world are religious . They may not have it impact their care on a serious level like this moron did, but there are far more religious doctors than atheist ones.

[u/The54thCylon → u/LilJonny2cookies]

"Equality Act" suggests UK, so MD is likely "managing director" not "medical doctor". We don't use the latter abbreviation. This was a business role, most likely.

[u/Super_Pan → u/LilJonny2cookies]

So how would he deal with female patients?

The same way as other male doctors; tell them to lose weight.

[u/SailorDeath → u/Redditauro]

Yeah, openly refusing the compromise kinda shows he doesn't respect women's requests meaning he'd probably take issue with any order given to him by a woman.

[u/Animus-Rex → u/mistermasterbates]

Yeah he had a way to keep his job and he didn't take it

[u/FrostyIcePrincess → u/mistermasterbates]

Agree. Shake nobody’s hand was a fair compromise. He refused. He got fired.

[u/Maximum_Boros → u/mistermasterbates]

Honestly even that accommodation was more than he deserves.

[u/ChemicalRain5513 → u/Maximum_Boros]

Actually, not shaking hands should be the norm for doctors to prevent the spread of germs without destroying their hands with hand sanitiser.

[u/ChaosCockroach → u/ChemicalRain5513]

I was trying to work out how they could posibly be a doctor without touching women. In this case I think that MD actually stands for Managing Director.

[u/thornsap → u/ChaosCockroach]

Its funny cos i work in finance so md automatically meant managing director for me.

I was wondering why so many people were talking about patients

[u/ThatPancreatitisGuy → u/ChaosCockroach]

Yeah I was thinking it doesn’t make much sense for a “boss’s boss’s boss” to be a medical doctor. Most medical practices aren’t going to be structured that deeply.

[u/fla_john → u/ChemicalRain5513]

Most doctors I've seen in the past decade have done a fist bump or nothing at all, but that's less common.

[u/BanzaiKen → u/Maximum_Boros]

Back in grad school in the 2010s women from Saudi Arabia were flooding higher ed and it worked similarly. If I or my mentor graded their paper or had lengthy conversations and handed it back to them they (or their husbands) would meltdown that its against their religion. The universities solution was hiring a female grad student for the building whose main role was to stand between us physically and then hand work back to the women and interface with them. Its wild how far the Overton Window has swung back to normalcy.

[u/Significant-Wait9200 → u/BanzaiKen]

During the same time period, i had a Saudi woman as a lab partner, and i broke the physical contact barrier, but she didn't seem to mind. I was always curious about that.

[u/Rickyjo1974 → u/mistermasterbates]

Shes also his superior, his boss’s boss’s boss as she put it. Religious rules aside I don’t know a single culture where you don’t have to show respect/honor to your superiors in some way regardless of gender. You wouldn’t refuse to bow to a queen or an elder because she’s a woman, that’s a pretty universal taboo. If I’m wrong please let me know, I just can’t imagine a scenario where shitting on your superiors status/authority like this is acceptable.

[u/Temeraire64 → u/Rickyjo1974]

You wouldn’t refuse to bow to a queen or an elder because she’s a woman, that’s a pretty universal taboo.

Actually Muslims aren't supposed to bow to anyone, they bow only to God.

[u/robedigrappa → u/mistermasterbates]

It’s not ok if you have a religion that is on crash course with civlization

[u/unicornofdemocracy → u/mistermasterbates]

Yeah, once reasonable accommodation was provided it was on him. If she just fired him without that... then it becomes religious discrimination.

[u/HoneyBeeHotHive → u/mistermasterbates]

Is it ok if it’s his religion? That’s all it takes to justify sexism or discrimination?

[u/StygianBlue2005 → u/HoneyBeeHotHive]

That’s basically the point of religion. “Yeah the universe was actually created by this guy who’s just like me and he said other types of people were bad”

[u/AmItheonlySaneperson → u/mistermasterbates]

If you won’t shake women’s hands find a fucking remote job 

[u/NoMeat9096]

Seems fair enough. I wouldn't ideally want someone to be a doctor if they refuse to touch women.

[u/No-History770 → u/NoMeat9096]

hes not a doctor. OOP herself is the doctor, not him. 

[u/_NyquilJordan_ → u/No-History770]

It’s also possible neither is a doctor. MD is used as Managing Director (similar to General Manager in North America) in the UK since the medical degree is MBBS. Judging by her saying boss’ boss’ boss… I think this has nothing to do with the medical field. Given no major religions prevent you from medical treating the opposite sex (as far as I know).

[u/Distinct_Lawyer_7160 → u/_NyquilJordan_]

Kind of a sidenote but then why are women in Afghanistan prohibited from seeing male doctors? Does this have any base in islam?

[u/MinutesTilMidnight → u/Distinct_Lawyer_7160]

Because the taliban are extremists who want to take women’s rights away completely

Women have rights under Islam that are being taken away by the taliban. Example, women have the right to leave their engagement or marriage, but under the taliban, judges will not grant it, and husbands demand amounts of money that neither the women nor their families have. So it’s legally allowed, but in practice, women can’t get divorced anymore.

[u/NoMeat9096 → u/No-History770]

Good point. They could be something else.

Mentally re-word what I said to "someone working in a medical field."

[u/PhatCatTax → u/NoMeat9096]

"Quick, the MD needs assistance with CPR and you're the only one on the floor!"

"Eh. Sorry. I feel yucky because God says dont touch women, and that would be A LOT of touching"

patient dies because MD cant keep using that much force forever

[u/_NyquilJordan_ → u/PhatCatTax]

MD means managing director in the UK. The context of the post doesn’t suggest this has anything to do with medicine.

[u/PhatCatTax → u/_NyquilJordan_]

Interesting. TIL. What disambiguates a medical doctor from a doctor of theology in the UK?

The context, except for MD, true.

[u/_NyquilJordan_ → u/PhatCatTax]

In the UK doctor of theology are PhDs or DPhils… medical degrees are MBBS.

In fact most countries that were colonized by Britain like India still use MBBS

[u/_NyquilJordan_ → u/[deleted]]

Doctor of Philosophy

Edit: if you mean MBBS it’s Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery.

[u/Arinussyy → u/PhatCatTax]

It's ironic because I don't think god would mandate that you could just let someone die

[u/Pilota_kex → u/NoMeat9096]

Shaking hands is cultural. Not just touching someone. If you don't get that you are not qualified to make judgement

[u/MediocreBlood760 → u/NoMeat9096]

I took MD, to mean 'Managing Director', hence why she would the big boss.

[u/LadybuggingLB → u/NoMeat9096]

He isn’t fit to work with women. I would also file a discrimination complaint. It’s no different than if he was discriminating against gay people or people from other religions. It’s a protected class and he had the option of treating everyone the same by not shaking hands with anyone at all, but nooooo…

I’m annoyed this is even a question.

[u/RedditIsFascistShit4 → u/NoMeat9096]

In my country it's just not a custom to shake hands with women when you meet her or get introduced. It's also really rare to have a woman that extends her arm for a shake. How ever nobody refuses a shake if woman initiates, but no man would initiate a shake with a woman, except for public events when woman is handed a dipoma or something similiar.

For downvoting psychos - it's just a fact of how things are in my country.

[u/No_Salt_6328]

Moral because he was offered a solution that wouldn't offend anyone and refused to cooperate 

I find it hard to believe, especially without any context implying it, that his religion requires he must shake hands with men

[u/BobR969 → u/No_Salt_6328]

As a representative of The Church of the Male Handshake, I call for the boycott of this MD and her insensitivity to our divine mandate. Our god of the Many Male Hands compels us to shake hands with only men at any appropriate opportunity or we are destined for an afterlife where our souls shall have our hands shaken against our will for eternity. 

[u/Least-Conclusion-315 → u/BobR969]

Amen brother

https://giphy.com/gifs/pHb82xtBPfqEg

[u/KorazKital → u/No_Salt_6328]

This is common in Islam, depending on which branch it is. I'm not sure if it's the Sunni or Shia, but I've personally had the misfortune of meeting people who genuinely think and act like this according to their religion.

[u/decaDecker → u/KorazKital]

pretty sure you don't have to shake hands with men, but you shouldn't shake hands with women

[u/NasDawg3 → u/KorazKital]

If your religion obligates you to lack respect for a subset of humanity, there’s a problem with your religion. And humanity should not be obligated to respect your religion.

[u/MC1R_OCA2 → u/No_Salt_6328]

I know people who are shomer negiah and very equitable and kind about it. I would be really surprised if in a professional context they were offered the solution of just not shaking hands and refused to do that. In fact I can think of at least one person who, at least in casual company, just didn’t shake hands for that reason.

It was a non-issue.

[u/No_Salt_6328 → u/MC1R_OCA2]

Exactly. The people saying it's wrong to eliminate him from the team seem to not understand that the lack of pragmatism in that decision not to adjust his behavior is a huge red flag.

Employment is always on the condition that you work effectively with your team and make compromises

[u/Sutraner → u/No_Salt_6328]

Of course it has nothing to do with his religion. Like every bigot, they just use their religion as an excuse to push their bigotry.

[u/Vast-Ad1915 → u/[deleted]]

I've had the same experience, but gender swapped (it was at a Women's business networking lunch I was an industry rep at, with a table full of college seniors), and yeah, dehumanizing is exactly the right word. When one of the students refused to shake my hand because I'm a man, I didn't really know what to do. I was second-guessing to myself "do I just feel entitled to a handshake, or is she actually in the wrong here?"

[u/Vast-Ad1915 → u/[deleted]]

She was wearing a hijab so I would assume religious, but I wanted to move on from that quickly without further embarrassment so I didn't ask.

[u/Lunatic-Labrador → u/Vast-Ad1915]

If she was wearing a hijab there's a good chance her religion prohibits her from touching unrelated men, even for a handshake.

[u/Witchcleaver666 → u/Lunatic-Labrador]

Then there’s a problem with the religion, which is what it sounds like in OP’s case. Handshakes aren’t handjobs, not everything about the opposite sex is sexual.

[u/Lunatic-Labrador → u/Witchcleaver666]

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that that's most likely the reason.

[u/alexagente → u/[deleted]]

This is it for me.

It's bad enough to engage in this shit. But to feel so entitled to it that you don't even apologize or explain yourself? I don't care what your stupid beliefs are you still need to treat other people as people.

And that's how it's happened every time I personally saw this kind of thing. Always just straight up ignoring the woman cause they don't respect them.

[u/booknerd2024910 → u/[deleted]]

This happens to me so regularly it’s not even dehumanizing any more it’s just awkward and embarrassing. I work in a place with mostly a male workforce. Part of my job is to sit on some of the management level interviews as a neutral party to ensure they are fair. Every other person in the room is a man 95% of the time, including the interviewee.

About 1 in 10 of the interviewees will shake every persons hand but mine even though I stand up right beside them. I keep holding out hope one of the other men on the interview panel will comment on it some day but they don’t, so instead I just awkwardly look away, sit down and pretend like it doesn’t bother me. I am 99% confident these men are not doing this for religious reasons. (Just for context, I do get introduced and ask questions through out the interview and my opinion is openly consulted in front of the candidate, e.g. I’m asked if I have a follow up question or need clarification, etc. so even though I’m not really a decision maker it’s also not like I’m just sitting in a corner taking notes.)

[u/translove228 → u/booknerd2024910]

Have you ever brought it up to any of these men after one of these events happened? I don't want to step on your experiences but if you never bring it up to them that this is happening they might just not notice it and realize that you are being disrespected. Then if you act like you don't care afterwards, even the ones who notice probably won't care either. If you have brought it up to them before and they didn't care then I understand your frustrations completely.

[u/booknerd2024910 → u/translove228]

I have not mentioned it to them. I think my concern is that any attention I give to it will make me (as the woman in the room) come off as “dramatic” or “attention seeking”.

I don’t put the blame on the interview panel. I should be able to stick up for myself, but at the same time it’s so embarrassing my instinct is just not to draw attention to it at all, you know? I’d rather just pretend like it didn’t happen.

There are a handful of managers I would trust to say something like that to and probably would if I was ever on a panel with them though.

[u/Longjumping_Text7652 → u/booknerd2024910]

If there's a guy you trust on the team, I'd show him this post (or a similar one) and ask if he's ever experienced anything like it. Lead it in as kind of a joke. If he addresses you seriously about it cool, have an honest discussion about it. If not, maybe he'll at least notice it next time it happens.

Or bring it up in a casual discussion; "Hey Bob, what's the dumbest reason you've said "no" to a candidate? I know it's not my job but, if they wont shake my hand, that's a red flag"

[u/translove228 → u/booknerd2024910]

Fair enough. There is always safety in silence.

[u/CuriousWisdoms → u/[deleted]]

I’ve been on the receiving end of this as a woman in a male-dominated field. I show up at a networking event and the man whose company sponsored the event is shaking hands and even hugging one of the men I arrived with, then turns to me, holds his hands behind his back, and gives me a nod. It was bizarre. All of the guys I came with separately told me they, too, were uncomfortable.

It’s hard enough to get respect in a field that can feel like a fraternity I can’t join. I did what I could to avoid him after that, which meant less work for his company, since I made the decisions about what work went to them. Joke’s on him.

[u/Shoddy-Job-5274 → u/[deleted]]

It's so interesting to me because he could have put his hand over his heart and given you a bow, or pressed his hands together with a small bow, like we do in India to show respect without touching. There are solutions to be respectful and maintain your religious boundaries!

[u/TheWhistleThistle → u/[deleted]]

Could at least bow or something. A nod even. Like, sure you got rules against contact, but you can still be respectful. Seems a needless snub to me.

[u/Dry_Nefariousness426 → u/[deleted]]

It’s supposed to be dehumanizing. That’s the purpose of it. 

[u/Cautious-Subject-231 → u/[deleted]]

Well in my country if you first meet a girl usually you dont shake hands instead give 3 kisses to the cheeks. Ofc it is not customary in a workplace instead in group of friends.

[u/seitsuko → u/[deleted]]

Yeah we had a guy like that at work and it didn't end well for him thankfully.

[u/PookydoodleWasHere]

Maybe we should be asking the morality of a "religion" that says you can't shake a woman's hand.

[u/Apprehensive_Ad3731 → u/PookydoodleWasHere]

Incredibly immoral.

[u/CactusJane98]

110% moral. Im suprised this is even a question. This degree of sexism has no place in the modern world, and I couldn't care less if it's his religion. Internally held prejudices, regardless of their source, should never take precedence over how you treat real people in real life.

[u/PeakRedditOpinion → u/CactusJane98]

We’ve slept walked into needing to have a discourse wherein we tip toe around Islam instead of just telling them to assimilate or pound sand like we’d tell any other person on the planet who shows such blatant disregard for first world decency.

[u/CactusJane98 → u/PeakRedditOpinion]

Right. And importantly, religion is far more political than modern liberals would like to admit. When discussing white americans using Christianity as an excuse for fascism, we say "no, fuck your religion, you're a fascist" and yet its considered unacceptable to say the same of Muslims, Jews or otherwise who hold similar (or worse) fascist worldviews.

[u/Dr-Assbeard]

Moral, you cant discriminate based on gender in a professional context, that guy would have been a liability to keep, a lawsuit waiting to happen

[u/FOCOMojo]

You offered a very reasonable alternative and he declined. Good bye!!

[u/Glad-Low-1348]

I wouldn't think of this as a big of a deal as it is if he didn't refuse to shake hands with women specifically. I don't like being touched by women for reasons but shaking hands? That's like a sign of basic respect.

EDIT: Also the man being a doctor complicates this further. What's gonna happen when a woman patient comes in and there's no one to help her but him as a doctor? It could be dangerous.

[u/Alarming_Delay_8352 → u/Glad-Low-1348]

Noone is a doctor, MD is managing director. That's why she's his boss' boss' boss

[u/Lucian_Steiner]

Given the context in the screenshot? Perfectly moral. A physician that cowers away because women give them the ick is less than worthless.

[u/No-History770 → u/Lucian_Steiner]

the man is not the physician, OOP is the physician, and she was his boss, or as OOP implies, much much higher than him in the Healthcare hierarchy.

[u/_NyquilJordan_ → u/No-History770]

Who said anything about a physician? MD means managing director in the UK. Their medical degree is MBBS.

[u/Lucian_Steiner → u/No-History770]

Getting rid of a problem before it risks someone's life or health is still moral.

[u/Glad-Low-1348 → u/Lucian_Steiner]

If women give you the ick you probably don't want to work in a profession where you PROBABLY have to touch them at some point yeah.

[u/Hyperionous]

She has a right to fire you I suppose. And he has a right to decide who he makes contact with.

So him getting fired is fine.

[u/DrBatman0]

completely reasonable.

If he has internal sexism, that's a problem. The 'speaker' had a way for him to work around that, without even needing to quit being sexist, and he still declined.

Completely rightful to not hire them.

[u/Spikey-Bubba → u/DrBatman0]

I love the irony of the solution not even requiring him quit being sexist. Like “it’s ok to work here and be sexist, just be chill about it.”

Which is true, for the most part people don’t seem to care what you think as long as you just leave them out of it.

[u/YuppyPlays]

Moral, in a professional environment treating somebody different in this particular kind of way due to gender is absurd. (Religious beliefs are not a get out of jail free card on respecting equality)

-Someone who has worked for some of the biggest corporations in the world.

[u/PainterEarly86]

Religion isn't an excuse for bigotry. Its blatant sexism and I don't care what your religion says. Intolerance will not be tolerated.

[u/tony_Tiger696]

Forget the job, refusing a handshake, a friendly greeting, is disrespect second only to spitting on someone.

[u/artstsym → u/tony_Tiger696]

It's not universal among all cultures, and even where it is used there may be different expectations for who and how. That said, when your new boss gives you the out of "not shaking all hands equally" and you refuse it, you've got no one but yourself to blame. Tried to meet him halfway.

[u/PROSEALLTHEWAY → u/artstsym]

which culture, specifically, is against handshaking? I've seen this spurious argument a few times ITT and it's a straw man. There is no "anti-handshake" culture. there's just some religious nutjobs who won't touch women's hands

[u/RegretNew5752 → u/artstsym]

It's not universal among all cultures

Clearly it is expected in the culture that this situation takes place in. Therefore, the onus is on the guy to adapt to the culture or move back home.

[u/Dwarfdingnagian → u/tony_Tiger696]

Depends. Refusing a handshake in general isn't disrespectful by itself. I've met people who apologized and said they don't shake hands for various reasons and offered a bow instead. That wasn't disrespectful. Refusing any greeting is disrespectful.

[u/Keiteaea → u/Dwarfdingnagian]

I think what could be seen as disrespectful in a professional event would be shaking the hand of everyone else but one category, in this case, shaking the hands of everyone but women. I do get refusing some kind of greetings, because being French and starting to refuse "la bise" in certain contexts, I've been there (one example being male colleagues saying hello to men in handshake but wanting to do la bise with women...absolutely not).

[u/Adamek3999 → u/Dwarfdingnagian]

Yeah, but this here is selective refusal to shake hands

[u/aquavelva23 → u/Dwarfdingnagian]

I would say it is disrespectful in western culture to refuse to shake hands. But western culture also tries to be flexible. In any event, shaking the hands of men only and refusing women is disrespectful. The person can bow to all. They must realize they are in a different culture and make accomadations or leave the culture.

[u/Edward_Tank]

Moral. If you're a sexist, I have no clue what other backwards ideas you have about medicine.

[u/Eoin_Coinneal]

Well this is how freedom works. He is free to shake hands or not shake hands with whomever he wants or doesn’t. A business is free to hire him or not based on that behavior. Just because you’re qualified does not guarantee you a right to the job. This is what is meant by “we hired a better fit.”

[u/ost2life]

Moral. Using religion as an excuse for misogyny is bullshit.

[u/Sable-Keech]

Very moral.

[u/KH4N-M4N]

I mean, moral in this instance. He was offered a reasonable compromise and refused.

[u/timsayscalmdown]

Based and moral

[u/Turnipntulip]

The guy doesn’t want to shake hand with women. He’s a damn misogynist. This is his boss and he still refused. What if he meets a female client? This kind of behavior would get you fired regardless of your political beliefs in any society where men and women are equal.

[u/melonwithoutthewater]

Moral. If your religion says you cannot touch half of all people then you shouldnt even be a doctor in the first place. Also anyone that disagrees with me, try disrespecting your boss(let alone your boss's boss's boss) for any reason and see how that works out for you.

[u/thrown-away-1992]

Moral, it would be one thing if you're a germaphobe and don't like touch others. Even if it's for religious reasons, you're a DOCTOR. What good are you if you refuse to shake hands or even touch 50% of the population?

[u/MaestroBlood21]

Moral. Quite valid. It just comes off as disrespectful if you only shake one gender's hand, and even after she offered you a solution you still refused to follow it. Evidently he wasn't too attached to his job.

[u/Getter_Simp]

Moral. He could have treated everyone equally while still acting by his own beliefs if he had chosen the option of not shaking hands with anyone and treating them all the same, but no, he went with the option that specifically discriminated against women. Deserved firing.

[u/TheMaStif]

Morality of being a misogynist and using religion as the reason/excuse?

[u/Dry_Nefariousness426]

Good for her. 

[u/PhiDeltDevil]

I can only imagine the religion in question here

[u/Lazy-Butterfly9874 → u/PhiDeltDevil]

You're right. mormons would take ownership of her daughter and his half niece

[u/SalamanderReginald → u/PhiDeltDevil]

I mean both Muslims and Orthodox Jews aren’t allowed to shake hands with women. Idk about others

[u/TheFlapse → u/SalamanderReginald]

They are allowed to shake hands with women. The prohibition is familial, one cannot casually touch or be left alone with an [unfamiliar] person of the opposite sex.

Unfamiliar might be the best placeholder term, stricter adherents would only allow family and spouses, softer ones might not care if it happened in a public/private setting or was a family friend. Religions aint monoliths so pointing at texts only gets you so far.

[u/_RizzukuHimdoriya_]

Moral, it's just really weird and sexist to do that 😭😭✌️✌️

[u/Separate_Business880]

If you're not capable of accepting simple customs of the country you're working in, you don't belong there. Simple as that. Find your happiness elsewhere because you obviously won't find it here.

Tomorrow he'll refuse to treat a woman, or botch her treatment because his religion doesn't condone her choices or something.

[u/BrittanyBrie → u/Separate_Business880]

The truly scary part is, they've been conditioned for over 1,000 years to view a woman as being less than a man. When you consider someone is less than yourself based on gender or race, treating them differently is not seen as a big deal.

[u/Gardeminer]

This isn't going like you thought it would is it, OP?

You should self-reflect on why that is.

[u/serenityxfelice]

Yeah what is said in the post your religion is your issue and religious beliefs arent above gender discrimination. If people are so religious then they need to understand some jobs arent for them and that it is a sacrifice they make for their religion. You cant expect someone to be ok with being disrespected because of your beliefs

[u/TheVoyager0]

If your religion stops you from being equally respectful to all people. You need a different religion. Or even better no religion.

[u/Frozen_clock]

Absolutely valid.

In any field, fuck it, life in general, disregarding a group of people because of your religion is disrespectful, offensive and bad for business image. Go right ahead and fire a misogynist

[u/Fornuftens_stemme]

Welcome to Islam

[u/Ayden3102isagoodname]

Moral, and would’ve been the same way even if the genders are swapped.

In a professional setting you gotta adapt your way of living alot

[u/ThisSiteSucks8485]

Shaking hands with men in front of the women you refuse to shake hands with is extremely insulting to women

[u/Doglovincatlady]

If you cannot treat your colleagues equally you don’t get colleagues, whoops

[u/gaoshan]

Good. he should find a job where he can operate within the norms of the society he lives in, not disrupt this one because of the specific mythology he adheres to.

[u/GewalfofWivia]

I asked him to adjust and shake hands with nobody, he refused.

Yeah I think that makes it pretty clear what his stance is.

[u/RoysPotatoes]

Yeah, if you can’t engage in society because of your devotion to a mythology you gotta go. Thats a mental health issue.

[u/Pleasant_Pool8842]

Bigotry of any kind is a good reason to fire someone.

[u/Dry-Ad-8948]

Moral to be fired.

He can either shake hands with every gender; or shake hands with nobody.

You are either unbiased towards coworkers or professional enough to ensure that your actions aren’t perceived as biased.

[u/Couatl2009]

Either give handshakes to everyone, or to no one. It being gender specific is weird.

[u/Book_Lover_42]

Moral. You are being protected from discrimination based on your religion. You are not protected from consequences of your actions, even when their root is in your beliefs.

[u/someonetookmyid]

If your religion conflicts with your job then change a job. People around are under no obligation to cater to your religious beliefs.

[u/Jewonamotorbike]

behave according to the place you immigrate to.

[u/nothnxihaveabf]

What religion tells you not to shake women's hands? 

[u/TomatoSoupKat]

I agree that this was moral. Sexism is not okay, and religion doesn't make it so.

[u/Firefly_Magic]

She did the right thing. If he won’t shake hands with a woman, just imagine what else he won’t do for a woman, during exams, checkups, surgeries. Sounds like he’ll take care of a man, but he won’t take care of a woman because that would require touching her.

[u/Ravenboi15]

It is completely morally justified because if this is how he acts to a woman who he needs to respect the I cannot imagine the dismissive and cruel manner he treats his female patients with. Seeing as being a woman getting medical care is already hell having a sexist doctor is just the cherry on top.

[u/ZealousidealDoubt407]

I don’t think we need to apologize for and excuse shitty, discriminatory, religious-based bigotry. Sort of a ‘paradox of tolerance’ situation.

As an egalitarian… call out bigotry in all forms.

[u/-Ellinator-]

Moral, it's wild to me that sexism can be dismissed as religion, I'd argue gender protections should trump religious protections and he should be fired/dismissed just by that alone.

Not taking the compromise of just not shaking anyones hand cements that he was just sexist.

[u/MSgamer69]

I actually feel a little uncomfortable shaking a woman's hand, but not because I have anything against women or consider them unequal. It's almost the opposite—to me, for whatever reason, a handshake with a woman has always felt somewhat awkward or disrespectful.

A hug feels more natural to me, but obviously you don't go around hugging women you barely know either. That could be considerably more inappropriate. 😂 So a friendly verbal greeting works just fine.

I also think there's an important distinction between having a personal boundary about physical contact and treating someone as less deserving of respect because of their sex. If someone doesn't shake hands with women for personal, cultural, or religious reasons, simply not shaking hands with anyone seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise. Everyone gets treated the same, and the person's boundary is respected too.

[u/Farazzd]

Now reverse the gender and it was a woman who did not want to shake with men

[u/Accomplished-Ask2497 → u/Farazzd]

It's literally just a handshake, i'd think she's in the wrong too

[u/Farazzd → u/Accomplished-Ask2497]

I am an ex-Muslim. Muslim men don't touch other women, even mostly the non-conservative ones. It's as much a part of culture as religion at that point.

[u/brydeswhale → u/Farazzd]

My male Muslim coworkers and acquaintances all bowed to me when we first met, which was equally respectful in my opinion. I don’t want to force anyone to touch other people, I don’t like it myself.

[u/5x5equals]

The second part is what sold this for me- Moral

She tried to compromise and suggest that he shake no ones hand, and he double down which is his right but I think that revealed internal conflict that gave her solid grounds to not want to work with him

She’s the boss she made a boss call

You cant work with someone who you feel doesn’t respect you, this is enough evidence to suggest that to be true

[u/5x5equals → u/5x5equals]

I went to college in Philly, met a bunch of muslim guys

One time we were having a kickback/hang out situation and we wanted to get food

Its college and theres alot of us so immediately
Pizza is thrown around, everyone is talking toppings and eventually we realize that our muslim friend can’t have any of the shit we’re talking about but we’re broke college kids so we’re scrounging our money together and we don’t have the money to just get an extra entire cheese pizza just for him to eat it himself

So then the question comes into all of our minds in a split second

Do we double down and try to get him wings or something and force him to watch us all chow on pizza without him while pork fumes clog up his nose or do we all just bite the bullet and eat the plain cheese but atleast no ones left out?

Immediately we look at each other, a few of us shrug and just switch to cheese and the money we saved from no toppings let’s us get soda and wings on the side

So by compromising we got more than we would have if we doubled down, because we respected our buddy and didn’t want him to be left on an island eating wings while we crush pepperoni and sausage

Essentially his lack of desire to compromise with her suggestion is probably reflective of issues that could show up in their work partnership later on and even if theres no guarantee of that, she understandably doesn’t want to take that risk

[u/pounduh]

Moral. She gave him options so he wouldn't discriminate against women. He chose to be a misogynist. Religion doesn't give you freedom to discriminate against half the population.

[u/hGr33n]

Moral. Discrimination like this is beyond rude and anti social, has no place in a place of work. We shouldn't tolerate misogyny as if it's just a personal preference.

[u/softwhitemochi]

Moral. Such beliefs have no place in civilized society

[u/Pretend-Literature35]

No she is 100% correct. We live in a society of laws. Not some theocracy.

Either he shakes no one's hand or everyone. This gender discrimination can not be tolerated. And not because she is his boss, this applies to all his colleagues.

Religious idiots need to learn.

[u/Artistic-Dirt-3199]

Perfectly moral. Genders are equal, take that middle-age superstition somewhere else.

[u/Lazy-Butterfly9874]

if we play the 'if the roles were changed' what do we find?

[u/VividPups]

You fired a man because he wouldnt give you a handshake is sad

[u/bobadat]

Lawsuit incoming

[u/greenmachine11235]

How can you be a doctor if you won't touch half the population? Seems like he's incapable of fulfilling core job responsibilities. 

[u/Delruiz9]

Moral, she gave him an out

That being said everyone’s justifying the firing because he won’t touch women in a medical job but apparently that was okay for employment as long as he didn’t touch men either, so I assume he’s not doing much work with patients hands on

[u/Heavy-Flight4323]

If a woman refused to shake my hand bc im a man i would just say "alright" and go about my day. I will say tho asking him to just not shake hands at all was a very fair compromise and it is odd he refused

[u/Comprehensive_Shop54]

Fair, your religion should not trump other people’s experiences in the work place. Women have came to far for equality to forgive things of such nature.

[u/ledow]

"We're not here as a corporation to perpetuate your prejudices".

She's quite right, and offered a equitable solution and they refused it.

[u/Lucky_Badger5828]

Absolutely Moral. Get this mentality out of there. My best friend recently started doing this bullshit. He’s quickly on his way to not being my best friend now. 22 years gone. What’s worse is his women encourages this and neither see the issue.

[u/XelNigma]

Pretty sure discrimination based on religion is illegal.

[u/SaltyKnowledge9673]

So forced touching is now a thing? If a woman didn’t want to touch male coworkers nobody would bat an eye.