Morality Ranking
Morality of potentially doing blackface by cosplaying a character of color that you really love?
Edit: there is certainly a lot of sides to this. Personally, I think it may be in bad taste but was done out of appreciation for the character instead of trying to insult black people. However, I completely understand why people would think it is wrong. I posted this mostly to get a variety of opinions because I think this could be a very grey situation and works completely of personal world views.
Edit 2: After more contemplation and discussion with users, I think my stance has changed a bit. I think the woman’s actions are amoral because of intent but it would be hard to accept that kind of action on a macro scale. She might have had good intentions but it opens the door for bad actors to get away with doing blackface in the name of “cosplay accuracy” which becomes real problematic it. She probably shouldn’t have done this and the action unintentionally becomes immoral when you think with modern discourse.
The problem with modern day is that any foundation or tan that is too dark is considered blackface. Which totally misses the entire point of what blackface actually is. Blackface is a theatrical practice where performers use makeup, charcoal, or shoe polish to darken their skin and create a caricature of Black people, for example a minstrel show.
I agree with you. I feel like society has jumped the gun and went too far over the deepend. I always understood blackface to be about diminishing the value of black people by making fun of them. While I think this cosplay is more about the appreciation of the character.
Edit: I’ve changed my opinion. It is probably better to monitor these kinds of actions due to racist bad faith actors would see this as an excuse to get away with blackface.
The context isn't just their intent, the larger context is that society, as a whole views blackface of any kind as disrespectful because of what it represented historically.
I don't disagree that they didn't mean harm, but anyone seeing that is going to see a white person doing blackface and place it in the larger context that they are familiar with.
I'm not gonna sugar coat it, they are the problem. These people who wanna stay stuck in the past are preventing EVERYONE from moving forward and evolving. They are actively giving any potential hate power, they keep feeding it instead of accepting that some people can have good intentions.
Not society as a whole, thats the problem. My country has tradiotion (not common anymore) older than the US itself of dressing up as czart or other demon that included painting their face black with charcoal and it was practiced also at places where people never seen black person (or might not know they exist) in their lives. Internet and publics got influenced by US blackface contoversy and now everyone are getting offended by cosplayers who dare to try to look like character. Blackface is about intention - intention here was appreciation of character.
I wish people would believe in my nuance but a lot of bad actors also abuse that to just do whatever they want. It’s either heavy polices or total abuse
I feel the way both black face and the n-word is handled in the US is counter productive. It creates more tension and gives geniune racists power.
It makes anxious people who really don't want to be perceived as racist awkward and wary around black people, since that word has a high likelyhood of triggering a violent response. Even if what they're doing is singing along to a song they think it's awesome by a black artist they like.
It also gives nefarious people a magic word that can more or less switch off the brain of black people and make them aggressive and potentially violent.
The same thing would be to either reject the use of the word entirely, or take away its power by considering intent when it's used. There's a difference between it being used by a kid who grew up listening to hip hop greeting his black friend and a dude in a white hood carrying a tiki torch.
Same thing with blackface. There's a this cosplay celebrating a character and then there's a dude wearing black shoe polish with exaggerated red lips running around saying massa and acting like an idiot.
I feel like the whole thing was heading in the right direction in the late 80s early 90s, but then got completely derailed in the early 2000s until today.
My thing is that does she need to be dark? Wouldn’t we all get who she is by how she is dressed? Like, if she wanted to be storm from X-men, I don’t think anybody wouldn’t get that she’s storm if she’s wearing the outfit.
I’m black. if wanted to be guile from street fighter and bought the wig and uniform, would I need to paint my face a light tone to get the fit across?
Exactly. You'd never see this unless the skin color was something unnatural. Usually cosplayers are themselves on costume. She has that dirty blackface look
You wouldn't need to, but then again, you don't need to do anything.
There's plenty of details about a character you can represent or not, and taking or two away might not make the character unrecognizable. But if a person wanted to fully embody that character, feeling like they'd really put in all their effort to bring them to life, why not let them?
If you wanted to be Guile from Street Fighter, you could indeed not paint your face white. But you could also paint your face but not go all-in on the uniform. Or paint your face white and have a shitty wig.
All white people who use tanning products are now racist against brown people. You heard it here first folks. Twitch you better start enforcing this and protecting my heritage or I'm gonna show up in the wokemobile.
Why are you acting like she’s just casually put on some tan foundation like she’s going to the beach as opposed to doing this for the very clearly elaborate costume they’re wearing.
I think they're pointing out that in some places in Asia/India people with darker skin purposely lighten their skin and it's not called racism.
It's the reversal test, if you reverse something and it is/isn't strange or wrong anymore, it tells you something. Like, does naming a team The Caucasians sound weird? What about The Indians, or The Red Skins?
The issue with blackface is that, in the US at least, it has a long established history of being used in a highly racist way. There is no long established history of people whitening their faces in a highly racist way (in the US).
That being said there are a plethora of countries that don’t have a history where blackface was used to racially disparage people; and it’s entirely understandable that they don’t view it as racist due to that lack of history.
And yeah if a bunch of people of color started a team called the caucasians or the white skins that’d be weird as fuck.
And white people tan themselves in literal tanning beds and spray themselves with tanning spray to become darker. Very few people complain about that. There is a different between tanning and painting yourself to look like a different race.
Yes! It is the extreme and either ignorant or intentional use of black color (not shades of brown, but literal black) to make caricatures of black people. It is like putting in buck teeth, wearing a rice hat and making extreme slanted eyes with an extreme accent to portray an East asian/Asian person.
Cosplaying a favourite character by putting on brown makeup that could also work as tan is not a caricature and should IMO not be seen as an offensive thing, especially if the intention is not to be offensive.
Ive seen people coming out of spray tan booths and tanning beds with darker skin than that, but i doubt theyd be banned for being offensive.
That being said, the skin tone seems to be a little darker than it should be. It is probably not intentional, but a possible mistake. Might be a lighting issue too
But i am not black nor too well informed on this, so my opinion of this is like a feather as it has little to no weight.
I said this on a post of someone asking if they should let their white kid dress as a black princess and everyone said it would be racist. They're dressing up as a princess who the writers happened to make black, and they aren't even a teenager.
Why wouldn’t they be? They’ve much to gain in Western society, where leftist ideologies have pushed a modern, cultural hierarchy upon society that dictates who can do or say certain things all depending on the color of their skin, or their place on the “oppression scale”, even in harmless or out-of-context manners.
If I was a hateful and/or selfish individual and I fit the bill as a minority in the West I would absolutely take advantage of this cultural subversion, which many have.
Funny thing is if she was her natural color people would be upset cause its "whitewashing" the character. People really will find anything to be upset about.
Black face was a parody of poc if I'm not mistaken, and often used to replace black actors who were deemed "unhirable" at the time.
Personally, I think if it's done respectfully it's fine. It's just skin color. It's one of those things that came from a more racist time that I think can exist without racist connotations.
Or like that time in Gaki No Tsukai where they were dressed up for the Police Academy and everyone got stuff like attractive cop and grumpy veteran cop, Hamada got "Beverly Hills Cop" and they painted his face black (no lips or anything) to make him closer to Eddie Murphy lmao
However, don't forget about people like Al Jolson.
Probably the most famous example of a blackface performer people will recognize these days, but he did it for all the right reasons.
(1927's 'The Jazz Singer' most notably.)
He was promoting black culture and went out of his way to hire them, demanded equal treatment of them on set, caused scenes in public places to defend them from unfair treatment, and had them over for dinner on a regular basis, which sounds like a small thing now, but back then it very much was not.
This guy almost single handedly muscled open the door for black actors and musicians in an almost literal sense.
Most of the others were garbage people, but that guy was an American Hero who spent his life trying to help the black community in a time of extreme oppression, and promote their art to get them work in the entertainment industry, well before the Civil Rights movement was taken remotely seriously.
Al Jolson is an example of someone using blackface to be about as moral and upstanding as someone can be.
It's a shame that so many don't realize what he was doing and often vilify him for the makeup without realizing what he was actually doing.
I agree the cosplayer isn't being immoral, but she's not some hero for it either like Jolson was.
I will take any opportunity to let people know about Jolson and what he did, because he absolutely does not deserve to be remembered as a racist creep.
It's the golden rule a lot of stand up comedians follow "it has to be funnier than it is racist" if people are to busy laughing to get mad, you're fine.
Native American here. I've seen racist native costumes and I've seen accurate ones. The ones who deserve the hate were definitely the former ignorant ones.
I'm telling yall this as a black person (not that this gives me the ultimate authority but whatever) yall don't have to do blackface. You can just cosplay as the character. When black people cosplay white characters they don't paint their skin. And hell if we're going to keep it 100 when white people cosplay asian characters they don't paint their skin usually either.
Why is this so far down under a bunch of dumb comments lol. It's truly this simple. Unless the character is like green or some shit, just leave your skin color alone.
Because this is Reddit and there are a lot of weird fucking people here. These are the same people who debate if they can say the n word if it’s in a song.
Because skin color has been used extensively by bad people & governments to decide if a person is worthy of being considered a person or 3/5s a person. And while sentiments today aren’t quite that strong, there’s definitely still pockets of that out & about in the world
They don’t have to but they can, they also didn’t have to cosplay, but they did. What U said about cosplaying white characters by black people simple isn’t true. Yes, most people don’t paint the skin, but some do. They have freedom to do it, just as in this case.
As an Asian person (though I don't think my race gives my argument any more or less weight) who gives a fuck?
Have you seen what professional cosplayers do to look as close to a character as humanly possible? There are levels to this hobby. Some people throw on the outfit and wig; others spend hours on prosthetics, body paint and makeup trying to recreate every detail.
"White people don't usually change their skin to cosplay Asian characters."
Yeah, no shit. Usually. Most cosplayers aren't putting in that level of effort in the first place. That doesn't tell us whether doing it is inherently immoral.
Intent and context matter. Blackface has a very specific history of caricaturing and degrading black people. Someone painstakingly recreating a character they genuinely love, without exaggerating racial features or mocking the race, is doing almost the exact opposite: they're paying homage to the character.
You can still think changing your skin tone is unnecessary or uncomfortable. But "skin made darker = blackface = racist" strips away all context, and I don't think that's a particularly useful way to look at it.
This was my thought on it as well. I went as Michael Jordan for Halloween in the 90s, full uniform, white AJs, red armband and leg brace... did not paint my face or anywhere else to be black, everyone still knew who I was. There's just no reason for it.
But that's not what this post is about. Are you saying it is or isn't moral? Obviously you don't have to and it's certainly a bold move to do it. Personally I think it's fine. Black face historically has been about demeaning black people. Which this clearly isn't about for her. It could also be engagement bait and she knew exactly what she was doing
The act itself isnt technically inherently immoral if it wasnt meant to antagonize but with the history behind it, it is still incredibly ignorant/tone deaf.
I think its like if you think a swastika is a cool design. Its simple and sleek with a spiralish vibe. Thats a fair take but also it carries so much more weight than that.
The amount of people I see defending this mess just made me realize I got to leave this sub. It's 2026. People know this isn't cool. I'm straight. If gay people spent the last 50 years saying please don't paint a a pride flag on your left cheek. We really don't like that. I don't really need to 100% understand it or agree with it. There's just no way for me to say I'm respecting their culture by doing anything I've been explicitly asked not to, by that culture. I will never understand why some white people feel the need to constantly search for some weird loophole or something that could be considered ok to paint their face to look like a different race
I like the sub but there are quite a few bad apples here. We can tell because every few days we get a big "lets circle jerk around being racist to the blacks" thread by asking the "morality of using racism(somehow always against black people) when being X'd by them".
I got recommended this Sub and am Shocked at a lot of opinions on different posts. A lot of people also Justifying Violence for things not worth Violence.
I know what blackface is. I don’t personally see this as blackface which is why I said “potentially” in the title because a lot of people did think it counted. This is a celebration of the character and not meant to be an offensive caricature. However, I’m asking mostly because some people think that altering your skin tone in anyway to be darker is blackface (I disagree).
The morality of being insulted by people who have zero reading comprehension and then not understanding why they are really just insulting their own intelligence
When we cosplay as other race characters we wear the hair, gear, and weapons etc. We know fans of characters know the character by the the things above. White characters dont need white kin to know who they are. Asian characters dont need your eyes stretched sideways. We know those things could be offensive so we dont do it. The girl above thinks the skin color is part of the costume. People who see black cosplayers wearing the gear without makeup but gear etc only assume we are doing black versions....no we like or love the character their skin color or race isn't a focal point enough to us to add to the costume. If you read all this thank you for the few seconds of your time
They're gonna get mad at you because "being white doesn't mean my opinions on black issues are less valid!!" its already happening in this comment section lmao
Every upvoted answer is "they weren't TRYING to be racist". Well sure, and I agree, but it's still weird. What if someone colored wanted to cosplay Captain America so they painted their skin white, you'll look at them like they're the hugest weirdo. Why we skin painting for human character costumes
What if someone colored wanted to cosplay Captain America so they painted their skin white, you'll look at them like they're the hugest weirdo.
Speak for yourself. I wouldn't care.
Which is the society I want to live in. Where we can recognize that people aren't doing these things out of ill intend and are doing them because they simply want to better resemble a character they really like to cosplay. Yes, if they're acting disgracefully whilst doing so call them out. But if they're being respectful then there is no problem.
If you don't want to match the skin color of the character then great. If you do, also great. Just be respectful.
This is the same sub that was defending incest a couple weeks back, it's not surprising seeing so many people defending blackface but it's still disheartening to say the least.
This subreddit is often used by right wingers and 'centrists' who see something insensitive they actually agree with, and to get upvotes from fellow users to make a performance of 'morality', without the real people involved interfering with them. That's what morality scaling is, a competition, not a real concept.
Good people with morality don't use this sub to alternatively crowdsource opinions. They didn't care about the real issue, that smart cosplayers don't ever color their skin. No mention of what black people felt and thought, despite being ones affected. The OP thinks it's not wrong, but they "completely understand" why it's offensive, so hypocritical. Nuance and empathy is always the real solution.
Often it's just identity and politics, ways to judge others in an echo chamber without real consequences. The point is to lie and play on emotion. The posts all have questionable actions but users want to oversimplify it to fit their emotions or agenda. Making a narrative and alternative reading, same as the think tanks do "fact checks" with bad sources.
It's seems to be happening everywhere lately, r/SipsTea is chock full of accounts peddling culture war bullshit shit in the wake of the Lindsay Clancy trial. I attribute it to midterms being around the corner and looking dismal for Republicans so MAGAbots are in overdrive.
Everyone else here trying to justify blackface is crazy, and the ignorance of people trying to make a ‘logical’ argument for it just shows how racist most people are without realizing it.
Immoral? Not in this context, it's not intended to be racist, it's not the same purpose as traditional blackface. Not moral either because it's just a cosplay decision, its just amoral.
Tonedeaf? Incredibly, I feel like anyone could have predicted people getting upset about this. Still not immoral, just a "what did you think would happen?" moment
Be smart don’t paint your face just wear the outfit. I do wish we lived in a world where this wasn’t an issue tho because without the historical black face context i wouldnt see an issue.
Yeah like in a vacuum it’s completely inoffensive, and it’s not a negative depiction or caricature in the same way blackface is however it definitely evokes unwanted comparisons just simply because blackface exists at all as a concept
What’s the difference between this and white people making themselves look Japanese? It’s not really hurting anyone. And if we single out a race of not being okay to cosplay, then that becomes the problem.
There really isn’t a difference but many people of Asian descent don’t really like when people intentionally “slant” their eye to imitate them either.
It’s not really about painting your skin to match another race in general, but the fact that historically speaking there is a pretty well known racial insensitivity around specifically painting your skin to match that of a black person’s. To know that fact and ignore it/intentionally teeter the line is what gets people mad.
I think the term “blackface” has become so broadly used online that its historical context and the intent behind it can sometimes get lost. Simply painting your skin doesn’t necessarily make something blackface; the context, purpose, and way it’s being used are important to consider.
That being said, you can avoid the headache altogether by not doing it for the same reason you don't see people of color painting themselves white when cosplaying.
I’m asking truly to only hear from another perspective so no ill will intended. If a Caucasian person said hello to their black friend whom they have known for years using the non hard n-word with no ill intent is that not both similar to this “blackface” situation and simultaneously still racially insensitive even when given proper context?
Lord. Black face is only offensive if you’re trying to be offensive. Displaying a character you enjoy, is essentially giving homage to them. It’s respectful if anything
Black Face also was exaggerated lips, wide nostrils, often wearing white gloves, and acting a complete buffoon or bumbling idiot. Darkening your skin to try and match a character is not black face. Nor is painting your face for camo, your teams colors if one is black, or using ash paint when engaged in Moorish square dance, a form of dancing/buckerage that predates the Transatlantic slave trade, let alone minstrel shows.
This seems truly grey! She clearly isn't mocking the character, their race etc. It's truly a homage, a cosplay out of love. She's appropriating, but that isn't always bad. What makes it bad is punching down, and that's where the crux of the argument is. People who don't beleive systemic racism exist don't see it as punching down, bc they think people's circumstances are equal. People who know racism exists understsnd that's not accurate.
I can't say I have any desire to see her in trouble, it doesn't seem she meant any harm at all. That said, wild decision! So easy to just not do the blackface part and still look like her. Definitely a shockingly silly move for a public figure to make and I can understand Twitch feeling the need to take a stance.
Black people don’t want you doing that shit, so don’t. White people don’t have the moral ground to tell Black people how they should feel about it.
Furthermore, you only see white people doing stupid shit like this. I go to anime cons all the time, and Ive NEVER seen a black person paint themselves to match a characters skin tone.
White people just be trying to justify their absurd behavior.
Playing the devils advocate why should i care what other people want or dont want. If cosplay is art then im free to do so in good faith. And who made you the voice of all black people? And finally when a white person says they dont like something a black person does that means by your own logic that they should not so it anymore right?
lmfao meanwhile y'all ate up the shit druski did, there's nothing wrong with someone dressing up or cosplaying as a character thats not their race, also you dont stand for everyone.
Black people don’t want you doing that shit, so don’t. White people don’t have the moral ground to tell Black people how they should feel about it.
A whole bunch of problems here. First and foremost, it isn't about telling anyone how to feel. It's regardless of feelings. People are offended by everything, that's just life. If we would design the accomodating everyones feelings, humanity would cease to exist.
Furthermore on one hand you are talking about moral ground but then you pretend you know what "black people" don't want. There are 1.45 billion black folk living on the planet. This isn't just a ridiciulous statement but most importantly one where you talk for 1.45 billion people, completely disregarding their actual opinion. Pretty immoral.
Furthermore, black people lighten their skin color all the time. Your experiences of anime cons is irrelevant considering that this is something that happens and there are products and methods available.
I kind of ran into this issue once before -- my daughter suggested we dress up like Indiana Jones and Short Round on our Halloween trip to Disneyland. I told her that as long as she's doing cross-play, and wasn't trying to make herself look Asian -- she was at the time a white 13 year-old girl -- we were basically alright. Turned out to be one of my favorite vacations of all time. The workers at the Temple of the Forbidden Eye brought us both separately into the ride and gave us the royal treatment, yelling that "WE CAN'T START THE RIDE WITHOUT YOU!" and basically giving us a fantastic experience.
That's one part but back then they'd hurr white actors and dress them up like a black person instead of just hiring a black person even in respectable roles
True neutrality, some people would see it as painting yourself green to look like an alien while others would see it as the greatest sacrilegious offense. It must be decided through a fight to the death
It isnt that this is necessarily wrong in a vacuum, it's that black people, we, are particularly sensitive about it because of the historic racism behind it, still perpetuated today in more covert manners. It was not long ago that a person in the NAACP was exposed as a white lady masquerading as a black woman.
Its unfortunate that emotions are this heightened about it, but you all have least right to judge our frustration with it. We were and are the main targets of mockery this way, still. We dont like that its this way either, or that we are mocked and criticized anytime we cosplay as any character.
We didnt choose to be the targets of blackface racism. If you want to cosplay a black character, fine, but dont color your face black. You arent any less of a man or woman for not doing it, youre just being considerate and mindful, which goes a long way in fostering positive race relations.
I had to scroll way too long for this comment. There’s way too many non-black people making a permissive judgement on this when it’s not their place and they barely know the history.
Wearing a different skin tone is for a costume is inherently objectifying to the people it’s imitating. And the people in this comment section claiming it’s actually a good thing? She saw the skin color from a marginalized group as something mundane and disposable, showing a lack of value, NOT an appreciation. She didn’t even get the costume right, she just invested all her time into changing her skin tone. Like her headband was decorated with what appears to be blue sharpie??? And her gloves aren’t even the standard blue???
I think batman is kind of a bad example bc there are lots of iterations of batman, so a black version is bound to exist anyway. I get your point though
I get the feeling like there is probably a lot of white people causally saying "this is perfectly fine" while black people would disagree lmao.
Dont do that. Even if one doesnt do it with disrespect in mind, it is in bad taste, and comes off as disrespect anyway.
Black skin isnt some alien weird colour, you can just cosplay without changing ur skin tone...
IDK where this person is from, but this post is from 2019, so maybe I can still imagine an European content creator being unaware of implications of blackface at that time, making this neutral morally.
Otherwise - its disrespectful. Is disrespect immoral? probably? IDK man.
Yeah i can just imagine someone going on reddit and seeing threads like this where people say "as long as the intent is good its not blackface" completely forgetting you will likely be cosplaying out in society at a con or something, among people who have no idea what the character is, who can only see the white person in blackface or brownface. And the varying extremes of reactions. No one will even see the costume, just the awful tan and how much they support or dont support wearing it. Im not black, but this person would get a wiiiiiiide berth from me. If they were my friend, it wouldn't be for much longer.
I mean...she really didn't need to add the skin colour too. Black cosplayers don't add white paint on their face to cosplay white characters. Skin color is usually just ignored in cosplay unless it's something non human like blue or red. I don't think she was trying to be racist or doing a blackface though.
Im white so please correct me but i thought i was only blackface if it was with racist intent behind it, simply making your face black for a cosplay isnt blackface if its mocking a black person like the adventures of tom sawyer the video game from like the 90s that had a blackface charater thats racist not this but please edcacate me if im wrong
It's amoral (as in, no moral component) but unwise because we live in a highly charged society where millions of people online desire nothing more than to lynch people on the altar of offense and racial grievance.
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u/Interesting-Ebb-2108 20h ago edited 19h ago
Yo is that fucking black face dude?