r/gaming • u/PrinceDizzy Joystick • 1h ago
'We're all keen to keep evolving' — Creative Assembly says Total War: Warhammer 40,000's controller support was developed alongside the game's battle system and doesn't believe the 'myth' that a gamepad can't work with RTS games
https://www.techradar.com/gaming/were-all-keen-to-keep-evolving-creative-assembly-says-total-war-warhammer-40-000s-controller-support-was-developed-alongside-the-games-battle-system-and-doesnt-believe-the-myth-that-a-gamepad-cant-work-with-rts-games23
u/ichii3d 56m ago edited 43m ago
Honestly I'm down for this, I will most likely play this game on keyboard and mouse, but I also have a PC hooked up to my TV if I just wanna chill so controller would be cool.
My only concern is that usually consolification ends up removing scope from PC implementation and interface suffers. But I don't see that happening here considering it's such a PC dominant game. It's probably just a nice side option, instead of a distraction for development.
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u/myreq 32m ago
The UI will definitely be worse as a result unfortunately, and possibly the game mechanics as well. They should develop two separate UIs, but there is no solution to game mechanics. Since the game is quite simple already though, it might be fine, if sad that they don't add more features than in previous games.
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u/KN_Knoxxius 26m ago
I dont care what excuses they will use to justify it. Its a downgrade for PC. Consoles pretty much always dumb down the games.
This is to dip into a new market, to make more money. It will affect the game for the worse.
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u/SudoDarkKnight 8m ago
They put StarCraft on N64 This doesn't mean it's dumb downed in any way to cater for consoles
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u/sharrrper 32m ago
It just has to have a controller specific interface designed. A lot of early RTS console ports did the control scheme as "keyboard and mouse, but without the keyboard so no shortcuts and you have to clumsily move the mouse pointer with a stick"
That makes for a terrible RTS experience. If you actually build a scheme with controller in mind though it can work well.
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u/Talonsminty 27m ago
Yeah I played all the C&C tiberium games on Xbox. It did suffer for a lack of buttons but not very much. Just takes a few minutes to get the hang of.
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u/Messyfingers 58m ago
Strategy games, with the huge amount of hot keys you end up using genuinely do not translate well to controllers in the same way that driving games aren't the best on mouse and keyboard.
Yeah you can make it work, but it's an uphill battle.
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u/zmbslyr 57m ago
There are plenty of games that prove well thought out controls can work for these types of games.
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u/Scholar_Artistic 56m ago
Yeah Age of Empires is absolutely fine on controller once you get it down
The only place its ever really going to hamper you is playing multiplayer
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u/RecentMatter3790 46m ago
why would it hamper you in multiplayer?
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u/Scholar_Artistic 44m ago
Its mainly just a speed thing, it takes alot of practice with the controller to get close to the speeds at which you need to make things happen to keep up in a multiplayer game
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u/esaul17 18m ago
Yeah it’s less that it just hampers multiplayer. It is a universal drag on your performance, that drag is just easy to ignore in a single player campaign balanced around the less responsive control set. During cross play against k+m players the disparity gets exposed.
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u/Scholar_Artistic 3m ago
To which point if you were super serious about playing multiplayer on console and felt as if with huge amount of practice on a controller you could improve no further, you would go about acquiring a mouse and keyboard
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u/0xF00DBABE 55m ago
I started playing StarCraft 64 for the first time recently -- I have played a ton of StarCraft I on PC going back to its release date -- and it works way better than you'd imagine. That's nearly 30 years old now!
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u/OutsideChampion4637 51m ago
I just hope they won't dumb down the game and UI for everyone but I'm not hopefull that's the case
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u/Tall_Opportunity_521 43m ago
Controllers have worked just fine with RTS games since the days of the mega drive. The ongoing questions around gamepads/controllers are only ever from snobby little cunts who think they are superior to other gamers because they use a keyboard and mouse.
Just ask anyone in 2009 if playing Halo wars was hard because it used a gamepad, and not a mouse and keyboard. The answer will be a resounding no.
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u/Scholar_Artistic 1h ago
Im sure this one will go down well with pc purists
I look forward to be able to play a Total War game on console as previously mobile was my only option
I hope more Total Wars make it to console!
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u/cslack30 45m ago
I’m primarily a PC player but I consider the fact that I can use a keyboard or a controller depending on the game a strength of the adaptability of the platform, not to mention if anyone has disabilities.
If anyone’s giving you crap for using a controller, they’re just a jackass.
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u/Glasgesicht 56m ago
There are so many instances of UIs or entire games that were designed for controller use and are incredibly clunky on mouse and keyboard.
Though I have faith that CA at least knows their core audience well enough that going the lazy route of doing just that really wouldn't sit well with them.
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u/Scholar_Artistic 52m ago
What examples are there? I assume its going to be console games that were ported to pc?
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u/TonninStiflat 44m ago edited 40m ago
Red Dead Redemption 2, for example.
But I suppose that is a "console game ported to pc".
GTA's probably are an example of the same, though I remember them feeling better than RDR2.
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u/Scholar_Artistic 41m ago
Yeah unfortunately most if not all console games ported to pc are just afterthoughts done to be able to get more money out of the game
Ultimately if you dont have a console and want to play that game you will just have to put up with it or plug in a controller
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u/cwx149 39m ago
KB+m players don't like the default Skyrim ui compared to controller players
That's part of why skyui is like one of the top mods of all time
But skyui isn't very good on gamepad
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u/myreq 30m ago
Just commented skyrim and see this next. The games should just come with two UIs as default to be honest.
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u/cwx149 25m ago
That's what larian does
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u/Unit_with_a_Soul 14m ago
an then there's paradox, who develop new UIs for their console ports, but don't include the original UI or MnK support in them.
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u/Mad_Maddin 30m ago
Dark Souls is playable with mouse and keyboard. But sucks. I would call it unplayable. But people beat it with donkey kong bongos. So it isn't all that unplayable.
Skyrim without modded UI is kinda trash with Mouse and Keyboard as well. At least menuing.
Edit: Also a lot of racing games. As you lose the nuance on how hard you want to steer.
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u/Scholar_Artistic 9m ago
Console game ported to pc? I probably shouldve said in the comment id like example of games excluding ones where the game was developed for one platform and then later ported to another or games that were developed for one platform without a regard for how it would play when released at the same time for another
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u/myreq 31m ago
The elder scrolls skyrim was really awkward because it was made for controller.
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u/Scholar_Artistic 6m ago
Thats a game designed for consoles without regard for its pc version
Everything CA have said so far about it seems to be "We want to make it work on both"
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u/Alistair_Macbain 34m ago
The issue are games that were disagned for controller and then ported to m+k. These games often just port tge controller controls and forget that m+k has more keys available for useful hotkeys and dont need alot of submenues to reach menu points due to mouse. That detracts from the experience. If both input schemes are properly implemented to their capabilizies only idiots will still complain.
Space marine is a good example. To kick someone or enable private I have to first press a button and use directional keys afterwards to press the buttons in that submenu.
While that is reasonable for controllers its just dumb for m+k...
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u/wiccan45 26m ago
its not that controllers dont work its that they dumb down mechanics/ui so it works better for controllers
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u/devilishycleverchap 51m ago
Welp thats not a good thing.
That means they made fundamental compromises to make it functional throughout development
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u/Alone_Look9576 37m ago
Like what, less keybinds and more intuitive keybind set?
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u/devilishycleverchap 30m ago
An overall less need for precision when it comes to orders in general will be a consequence. There will be helpers akin to auto aim
Like what, less keybinds and more intuitive keybind set?
What the lack of keybinds from controllers will instead result in is nest menus and things that should take one key will require a combo to open a subsequent menu or radial wheel.
This happens literally every time
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u/Alone_Look9576 23m ago
And those will only affect controller set, guess what nested menus if anything will be for controllers, you don't have to change the whole game in order to make the controller to work well. Layout that makes sense, utilizing dpad properly and much more. If they can give good controller integration I'm all up for it and I'll judge it once we get it, not now when we have no product to judge.
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u/Caffeine_Monster 17m ago
Sweeping gameplay and mechanic changes. i.e. simpler and slower.
Controllers are just poorly suited to RTS and no amount of UI tweaking and controller support will ever fix that. It can be made somewhat be workable if you gut the game mechanics and interfere.
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u/SmugCapybara 14m ago
Ah, I see CA is solving the issue of terrible battle AI in innovative ways - instead of fixing the AI, let's just make the player use a worse input method and close the gap that way! /s
I kid, of course. If they can get a good controller scheme going without compromising the core of the game, that's a pure positive. I just hope they get the core systems right...
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u/Illyrian5 7m ago
Evolve your ass to Rome Total War 3 you numbnuts !
Rome in 2005, Rome 2 in 2013 and I'm old now already !!
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u/darksepul 4m ago
RTS can be played on a gamepad? Yes. It will be sup-optimal? Depends on the game.
A fast-paced either like StarCraft Brood War or StarCraft 2 I can only imagine being the worst possible experience because of intense Micro and Macro multi-tasking. Age of Empires, Halo Wars, Warhammer and slower casual-friendly RTS? I can't see why not.
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u/Loki_Agent_of_Asgard 53m ago
Whelp this game is doomed.
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u/MountainMuffin1980 46m ago
Why?
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u/Loki_Agent_of_Asgard 41m ago
Total War games are pretty damn complex, to make it work with a controller they'll have to make the UI and gameplay work with a controller, meaning it will be extremely toned down to usual.
People love bringing up Halo Wars and LOTR BFME 1 & 2, but those games are only good and impressive for what they are, compared to actual RTS games made without a controller in mind they're pretty basic. Also factor in that that's 3 games over a span of 30 years out of dozens of attempts of bringing RTS games to consoles/controllers and you'd rightfully be EXTREMELY worried about them aiming for making the game playable on controllers, especially since I don't personally REMOTELY trust Creative Assembly to not basically ruin the game in the pursuit of console money.
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u/MountainMuffin1980 40m ago
I'd have thought they'd just have two systems, like Baldurs Gate 3, but if the devs are lazy as you suggest...
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u/Loki_Agent_of_Asgard 30m ago
It's called Blood for the Blood God III by the way because all the Total War Warhammer games had a similar DLC that added blood and unit executions.
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u/UnsorryCanadian 39m ago
Them making sure that controller users can play is going to ruin the entire rest of the game?
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u/Ohgood9002 37m ago
I don't think PC players realize how many people want to play these games on handhelds. Its not even gamepad controls. Its touch controls as well.
And touch controls for a RTS is an easier sell too
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u/Hump-Daddy 59m ago
LOTR BFME 2 and Halo Wars both ran great on controller I found. Sure mouse and keyboard is likely more optimal, but controller can absolutely work well.