Reminder: transmedicalism is transphobia. People do not NEED dysphoria to be trans. People who change nothing but their pronouns are still trans if that is how they identify, this is not a topic of debate but an objective fact held by our team. All trans people, nonbinary people and gender-nonconforming individuals belong here and will be respected.
That's fine; but someone who has no need to medically transition has a fundamentally different perspective and life experience compared to me. Doesn't make them less trans or valid or whatever but we're not the same and that's okay- part of the same group broadly, but with different needs.
This is true, coming from the perspective of someone with no intention to medically transition. The experiences between me and my girlfriend, who is medically transitioning, could not be more different. To be blunt, there is a privilege in not wanting to medically transition. This is a privilege people with moderate to severe gender dysphoria do not have. The two experiences, simply, are not comparable aside from the gender incongruence that overlaps between the two.
This is why I still think the terms transsexual and transgender are both applicable and should both be used. They connote different conditions. If you're medically transitioning and socially transitioning you are both transsexual and transgender. You can be one without the other though.
Transsexual is thankfully being reclaimed as it should be, because it accurately describes the change of sex that comes from medically transitioning. Nobody should have an issue with it as long as its used in the proper context
There are people who don’t like their primary and secondary sexual characteristics, and there are people who don’t like the social category pushed on them by society. These are two distinct categories (which do have significant overlap, but not 100%). The former is a medical condition, the latter is not. Both are equally as valid.
Not being able to vs not wanting to is the problem, and seeing it as unnecessary also leads down a path of making medical transitioning more difficult to get by making it seem elective/not necessary(meaning insurance won’t cover it.)
For a lot of us, it’s not about passing to others; it’s about being comfortable in our own skin. By all means medically transitioning should be seen as necessary so those of us that need it can stop having our needs rejected under the false pretense that it’s optional or vanity.
My thoughts exactly. You 100% do not need HRT to be trans or to be valid. Unfortunately though I feel like I see this brought up a lot as a sort of gotcha when a trans individual is complaining about having difficulty accessing HRT.
It should be seen as necessary for the people its necessary for. Which is not every trans person. Not everyone with depression needs antidepressants but theyre still incredibly necessary for some people
I understand this in terms of the repercussions that stem the perspective of this seeming optional/elective for us, first and foremost...but having said that, I do think it should be valid for someone to be Trans and not have a desire to medically transition. I acknowledge that it's a minority of trans people that will have that internal experience, i.e. a trans person with a naturally flatish chest and/or naturally high T who works out to shape their body in their own way, and boosts their levels with natural alternatives.
I'm not trying to be devils advocate here either, I feel that I understand what you said above and am curious on your take regarding the potential nuances here, if you're open to sharing.
I would disagree with you. It's not THE most important thing, but to say it has no effect or impact on ANYONE'S life is just silly to me...but that's also because I view the concept as far more broad than just telling someone they're valid.
Similar to how referring to the importance of societal acceptance doesnt inherently mean I live in a delusion where I think everyone in society needs to like and accept me for me to be myself or something...but it'd sure make my life a lot easier to be at the baseline of societal acceptance where the majority of people don't have some counter argument or ignorant, hateful opinion opinion about my very existence.
Idk im probably out of my depth here in terms of getting my best point across with extremely specific word usage, but the use of "valid" here for me was simply a catch-all to mean "generally accepted", "not considered controversal", "not highly debated/disputed", etc.
I was walking in the door from work when I originally read your comment, and upon second reading I particularly agree with the second half of what said regarding being comfortable in our own skin, while still acknowledging the reality of external perception.
It makes much of what I said a moot point so I wanted to comment again to say I appreciate your perspective.
Yea pretty much this, like yea you can be internally trans but if externally you look like Gimli then the majority of people will assume you're a bloke (much as dwarven women have beards but that's besides the point)
To add to this, I'm a medically transitioned trans man, so family and cis friends who have questions sometimes come to me.
Cis people absolutely will not believe you and reckognize you as your preferred gender if you don't (medically) transition. I've had conversations with cis people who asked me if person XYZ they know is "actually trans" because they don't wanna take hormones and don't seem to put effort into their appearance, to pass as their preferred gender.
So not only will strangers not see you as the gender you want to be seen, they also probably won't put effort into gendering you correctly if you don't put effort into looking like the gender you want to be reckognized as.
This isn't about who is and isn't trans. I am only talking about the outside perspective, trom the perspective of these aforementioned cis people.
That’s not really a problem with the trans person though, that’s just a product of how we in society perceive people by gender and what we expect of gender.
In other words, yes you’re right that most people likely won’t see the person as trans, but that doesn’t affect the trans person’s identity, just like how being in the closet doesn’t affect whether a gay person is gay.
Some of us exist on the binary and consider being trans to be a medical condition. It feels invalidating to say there’s no difference between those of us who medically transition and those who don’t, just as it’s invalidating to say people who don’t are not trans. For some of us it is about crippling lifelong dysphoria that is literally medically necessary to treat. That is a core part of our experience. We do not want to critique society’s views on gender we just want to exist on the correct side of the binary as normal and as we should have had since birth. To frame it the way you just did also feels extremely invalidating.
I’m a trans person on the binary and consider it to be a medical condition too (although I choose my audience to phrase it that way to not give the impression of transmedicalism).
I disagree, but maybe because I see it more as an individual thing or a spectrum, or a big umbrella. I can call myself trans and consider HRT a lifesaving medication, and social transition mandatory for me, but I’m ok if someone who has no desire for HRT also calls themselves trans. I’ll just pocket the knowledge that we will have very different lived experiences, just as two people in Canada can have vastly different experiences but both still call themselves Canadian.
If transphobes target us for those people existing, I don’t think it’s fair to throw them under the bus, as that historically has not been a winning strategy for marginalized groups.
There are people who don’t like their primary and secondary sexual characteristics, and there are people who don’t like the social category pushed on them by society. These are two distinct categories (which do have significant overlap, but not 100%). The former is a medical condition, the latter is not. Both are equally as valid.
The former is a medical condition, the latter is not.
The medical condition part is hard for me, because I feel that way for myself, but I don't know how I'd define it on a population level.
My mom quite dislikes her sexual characteristics, but AFAIK that dislike doesn't cause her a level of distress, she wouldn't consider it a medical matter, and she wouldn't call herself trans for it.
I think the medical condition part is "your discomfort with your primary and/or secondary sexual characteristics causes medically notable harm to your physical and/or mental health", which I assume is probably roughly how gender dysphoria is defined medically.
They don’t care. Many trans women on Reddit and Twitter have a habit of only caring about themselves. Same goes for lesbians. The amount of unnecessary pick-me gatekeeping that goes on online in trans and lesbian spaces is insane.
your identity isn't external at all, that's expression of identity and it isn't the same. being trans is not just about passing, it's about respecting someone's identity, which is who they are INside.
if you see a trans man who looks conventionally feminine, there's nothing wrong with assuming he's a woman. but if he tells you "actually, i'm a man" and you continue to call him a woman, that is the difference and THAT is transphobia.
many people CANNOT medically transition no matter how badly they want to. medically transitioning is a privilege. full stop, if you can access gender-affirming medical care both physically and financially, YOU ARE PRIVILEGED. you are in a position of privilege over trans people who cannot.
the entire idea that the validity of a trans person's identity is dependent on how they appear is just thinly veiled transphobia—there is a difference between trans people who cannot and trans people who just don't want to, and it gets so exhausting seeing people conflate them as the same just to justify this way of thinking.
Genuinely how are you trans and STILL let these bullshit societal expectations and norms control your views? I’m not trans and I will completely respect anyone who says “I’m a man”, “I’m a woman, “I’m both” or “I’m neither”, no matter what they look like.
Also newsflash, most people won’t see you as a real woman even IF you went through surgery and HRT, unless you completely pass and stay secretive.
They will ALWAYS find a talking point to use as an argument to deny people Healthcare of any kind. So thats kind of a moot point.
The point is someone is still valid, still trans even if they can't medically transition for multiple reasons (lack of access, autoimmune, ect) or don't want to for multiple reasons, be it because of the risk factors, anxiety, or not having dysphoria.
I think the broader point is for the trans people who CANT transition but need it, that doesnt stop us from being trans. Hence the use of the word "Yet"
I still often see such arguments used to minimize the needs people have, and while I get why, it does strike me as the same sort of liberalistic view of autism where lower needs autistic people are promoted and dominate the neurodivergent space leading to autism to be seen as just a different type of functioning. It leaves behind a lot of us with more needs because those of us with more needs are more socially problematic.
I still think this is horrible language. Yes, there is some “privilege” in me grinding myself to the bone and getting publicly mistreated and doing sex work for my HRT. I get it, I sell nudes to afford living, what a priviledge. I just think calling it a priviledge is needless. It’s a word entirely associated with something bad, and necessary medications are a fundamental need.
It’s like saying someone is privileged for digging a hole with their bare hands to get clean drinking water. Like sure, yeah, they have more privilege than a quadriplegic but maybe saying that isn’t actually helpful.
IMO the privilege thing didn’t need to be brought up, the underlying sentiment of “what good does this infighting actually do” still stands. I haven’t heard of any cases where this has actually harmed other trans people, it’s still just transphobes doing the damage.
Body dysphoria. Some people can look at themselves and say "im a man, even if i dont look like it" but others look at themselves and dont see that. They see a woman. (Or vice versa). Dysphoria is extremely draining and can mess with your head really bad.
So some people have a somatosensory map that does not correspond correctly to their body. Imagine male genitalia, female somatsosensory map. This person is male externally and interally their brain is expecting a more female shape.
There's also the hormonal receptor concentration aspect.
Your brain is developed in the womb at a different time. And after your genitalia is formed. So they're not always correlated, you could be born as a female and have a testosterone dominant hormonal profile , which means you need more testosterone than estrogen for your brain to function properly. Your female gonads may actually support this higher testosterone need naturally in conditions like PCOS....or they may not and you'll suffer dysphoria.
These two issues are not related therefore you can have a mixture of these and thus not fall into the outdated trans narrative of mtf or ftm. That full transition narrative doesn't work for our species, it only works to support those who align with the binary and leaves the rest out to die.
These are also not all of the issues that can occur. Right now, you were forcing all of these people who have these conditions to identify as trans, even if they're treatment is different. And their setup is different. Because if you think about what I just said and you put it all together , you realize that there's several populations who are missing from the narrative. Yet the underlying biological need to receive something externally from themselves, such as hormones or surgery is required. They don't fit into the gender identity narrative , but they still need the medical care.
So, trans people and more not trans, people actually need to transition (hrt is primary or secondary either you need the biochemical part of the side effects of gendered appearance alteration). There's there's such a high medical need for it that it's more important to look at it through the lens of biological diversity , and some people are well compensated naturally , and some people are not in need help and that's fine.
I've never heard the term somatosensory map before but when I've tried to explain my need for HRT and surgery I've described it as being because of my brain not mapping my body accurately.
Without being too crass, when i lie down on my back I like resting my hands a little above my pubis and my whole life I've been taken by surprise when there's been something there. It's like I keep forgetting (even when I thought I was cis) that it existed.
Gender dysphoria. In short, gender dysphoria can get so bad to the point people commit suicide. The suicide rate amongst trans people is actually very high, but it seems to lower for post-transition trans folks.
The only treatment to severe gender dysphoria is medical transition and respect for one's gender. It genuinely prevents depression and suicide
I only said "seems" because I didn't have a source ready to back my claim up, and I was worried someone would jump in and go "NOOOOO TRANS PEOPLE ARE JUST SUICIDAL FREAKS!!!!" so I was minimizing risk 😭 my apologies
Yeah, I typically prefer to have a source ready incase someone says some bullshit, but I was unfortunately in school at the time and couldn't pull one up 😔
Not to mention that for trans women especially, identifying as trans without passing can be exceptionally dangerous. There is definitely a "need" for medical transition in some cases if you actually want to live as your authentic gender.
I would imagine that it’s linked to the dysphoria conversation. Some trans people experience great mental distress at their body not matching their internal image of themselves, but it’s been argued that that intense level of distress (and therefore expensive medical treatments meant to resolve that distress) is not required for someone to consider themselves trans. Sometimes they might love their current body but still want the social components of the transition.
i think telling trans people who don’t wish to/or can’t transition that they are still trans is different from withholding medication from the ones who want to medically transition. two things can be true.
there’s a mirror to this for the disabled(“you’re functioning well enough so you don’t need medication”) and the same approach should be used for both: get a different doctor because that one is a fucking idiot
though needing just hormones makes you a bit better off because DIY is an option and if you’re in the US it’s cheaper than prescribed lmao. if you need surgery it’s really rough
A doctor shouldn't say that point blank, and if a doctor does say it you gotta get up and go.
Medical treatment is your choice is the point, and you're not invalid for not seeking it. But no one should make that choice for you.
And I think rather than invalidating people who don't want to medically transition (or can't), we should focus on making sure the choice stays in our hands and doctors don't get to say that.
I think that someone is trans if they're unable to medically transition but still want to. I do not understand how someone can be trans whilst having 0 desire to medically transition in any way.
genuine question: if you don't have any surgery or hrt and identify as trans, what exactly makes you trans, besides just like, yea this is how i feel. If someone were to in bad faith, or as a troll, randomly say "i identify as trans", is there any way to refute or invalidate that, besides just the vibe that theyre not being genuine?
I cant speak for every trans person, but my personal opinion is that some trans people are assholes, regardless of if theyre faking or not. It doesnt mean they have any less right to transition.
Asking people to prove or validate their transness, in my opinion, is bad faith in its own right. If someone's pretending to be trans to troll, theyre an asshole. If if someones genuinely trans and just an asshole, they're an asshole. When we decide transness is up to those who can prove it or be validated as trans enough, we exclude people that cant or dont desire medically transitioning entirely.
Being trans and transitioning isnt about proving it. Not to me, you, the community, or to anyone. Its about being comfortable in your body. Theres no such thing as trans enough. If a trans person is a sexual predator, theyre just a predator, regardless of their transness.
What s the purpose in being trans and avoiding any iind of transition? At this point the poeple who do this are just gender non conforming men and women.
i like to use the term for precision, but a lot of the people in this comment section make me feel disgusted to be associated with them, and just want to use it for division
Its the belief that to be trans you need to have dysphoria, that being trans is a medical condition, and that the treatment for that condition is medical transition.
medical transition could include surgery or just hormones. And you can be pre treatment, or even unable or unwilling to undergo treatment and still be trans if you experience the symptom of gender dysphoria.
Sorry but to understand for myself what makes them trans if they haven't transitioned or aren't wanting to transition? Isn't that kinda the meaning of the world
Their identity, being is in today's queer circles very rarely gets defined as a behavior you put on. The main definition currently is that you're trans as long as your gender identity is a different one from what a cisgender person of your sex would be expected to have. The current opinion is that if you're trans, you are trans regardless of if you know it or not
Social transition. Some people are fine with their bodies, but still would like to be seen as another gender. And some people just can’t medically transition.
Genuinely baffled that TRANS people out of all people can’t even understand this. Did we forget that sex and gender are distinct? What is the end goal for these people? To go back to full on transphobia?
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u/WW1_GermanyI do not enjoy this porcelain beverage holder that has a handle!1d ago
that's like asking "what makes someone gay if they've never fucked a man?"
My thoughts exactly. And to be clear, it's not meaning that their feelings are invalid, but that expanding the term to include distinct experiences, not part of the original definition fundamentally dilutes our ability to have any discourse that's not purely subjective.
trans meaning "transition" is a misconception. "Trans" in general is a prefix or adjective meaning across / on a different side (e.g. in chemistry, a trans isomer means the functional groups are on different sides of a rigid structure). Transgender simply means your gender is on a different side to your assigned sex at birth. But it was common enough that we also shorten the term "transgender" to "trans"
It's moreso trans people that say they don't want to medically transition at all which is obviously super weird because why? I'd rather die a painful death than ever go back to the way my body/mind was pretransition
Has nothing to do with not being able to for financial or medical reasons
Either way it's a nonissue do whatever makes you happy as long as you're not hurting anyone else
Yeah you, as an individual trans person, don’t need to transition to be trans. but I’m pretty confident ‘you don’t have to medically transition’ is already the default position for most people in power have for all of us.
So like as long as it’s acknowledge that some of us DO need medical transition and that message is pushed just as hard I’m perfectly happy to add nuance and reassurance for those who feel alienated by the fact that a lot of us do
I’m happy for the people that can and do get it but I’m a little tired of seeing people throw surgery around like it’s just something everyone can afford or get. How much does it even cost? Is it even covered by insurance? Not like it really matters to me because I’m poor and haven’t had insurance or spoken to a doctor in over a decade.
Yeah that too, would I want some? Yeah. Can I afford it? Probably not, bills, rent, and groceries are something I’m regularly stressing to afford. Seeing posts about how trans people are only going to feel happy if they have these things or how they’re going to be treated like a pariah by other trans and queer people if they’re early transition or haven’t started at all certainly isn’t helping. I know it’s personally not helping my mental health.
Hey how about who the fuck needs someone else's validation to be happy? That means you aren't happy with yourself. So fucking stupid. Just be you. Whoever you are
I believe one common part of being trans (everyone is different though) is that the brain is wired in the same way (again, varies on a case-to-case basis) as cis people of the same gender, and so that mismatch is what leads to gender dysphoria, which is why asking "why be trans?" kind of misses the point. Hormone therapy and other gender-affirming care basically seeks to restore the hormone profile as well as the physical body to what the brain expects.
Then there's gender expression, which usually aligns with but is not the same as gender identity (e.g. femboys still being men and tomboys still being women.) Gender is complicated though and I don't understand it. Judith Butler might, I don't know.
Edit: I want to make it clear that this is based on my recollection of things I have read here and there and that I don't actually have sources backing any of this up
transmedicalism is damaging for all kinds of trans people. like I really wish my chest was flat every day of the week but I'm not going into such a toxic mindset nor do I want others to develop it because of me.
I mean this in the nicest way possible. But maybe, Just maybe.. a term that means “one who doesn’t identify with their assigned gender at birth” means “one that doesn’t identify with their assigned gender at birth”, and that is a broad group of people. The term is broad because it describes one shared experience over a broad group of people.
Imagine saying this about the word “woman”
“If identity is being true to ones self, and is a product of experiences, although they share commonalties, lumping two distinct experiences together doesn’t really help to explain someone. I get the desire to create a “big tent” woman identity, just as there is a big tent female identity generally, but at some point the term becomes so broad as to lose it’s meaning.”
Some, and many, trans people do make the distinction between transsexual and transgender, but they both fit under the label of trans. It’s an umbrella term, just like “woman” or “man” or “nonbinary”. Even among cis people, “cis woman” describes all kinds of different women, not a single one fits into every generalization of woman aside from “identifies as a woman”.
I say this as a transsexual man on HRT, medically transitioning and currently passes most of the time.
Nothing. Gender is a meaningless category outside of whatever you think individually.
ETA: what? It is. You can’t prove a gender identity and you shouldn’t want to try that. It would eliminate anyone non binary or anyone who didn’t have historical examples of dysphoria.
its about identity and an internal sense of self, medically transition is a treatment for dysphoria and so is medical transition, but neither require it, some trans people are trans due to euphoria.
There is also transitioning socially and in other ways
Changing your name informally, dressing the way you want, cutting your hair or growing it out, using make up, binders, etc.,
Transitioning doesn't end at medicine.
There's also just... mentally and emotionally. You know WHO you are. You've already begun the transition internally. No, I'm not saying it's the same thing as hormones, I'm saying it's another part to the identity and the whole thing.
The actual psyop is trying to make trans people argue about who is "really" trans when everyone should mind their own fucking business about other peoples identities
There are people who don’t like their primary and secondary sexual characteristics, and there are people who don’t like the social category pushed on them by society. These are two distinct categories (which do have significant overlap, but not 100%). The former is a medical condition, the latter is not. Both are equally as valid.
Also trans discourse online is fucking cancer, I will do my best to try and avoid it from now on. How you can be trans, one of the most oppressed groups socially and politically, and still end up a transphobic misogynistic patriarchal bigot is beyond me. Bye.
Hard agree. I don’t know if I will ever be able to transition. I don’t think about it bc there are so many barriers. But that doesn’t mean someone else doesn’t need it. Everyone’s situation is different. But all my partners are in the same boat. Express ourselves how we can but it’s just not in the cards. It’s hard bc it’s still painful. Ppl assume I’m a woman and I even had a home health nurse tell me that the way I dress ‘hiding my curves’ was the reason I have (genetic) illness… then she pressured me to let her dress me up. She had no idea I was trans I think but it was so hurtful. But I let her do it bc she’s my nurse. I hate living this way.
i’ve been called cis and an fbi agent ten times within the first 30 minutes of making this post.
i don’t mind, i knew i was going to get heat for this. but my opinions don’t sway just because some people disagree with me. even if everyone is against me i still stay true to my beliefs and values. and plus this is reddit none of these keyboard warrior losers are affecting me irl. they have as much power as a fly buzzing against a closed window.
noticing all the people ignoring the point that some people have medical complications that would prevent them from undergoing HRT or surgery, seems you cant be trans if you have complicated chronic health issues.
not to mention, and i probably dont even need to bring it up because the type of people in the comments is already evident, how would someone transition to nonbinary? OP is right, yall are just small minded
As a medically transitioning nonbinary person, I agree with you. I don’t owe transmeds or transphobic cis people ANYTHING. For my own personal happiness and quality of life, I’m medically and socially transitioning to be intersex, or androgynous. Doesn’t mean other nonbinary people have to. I personally wouldn’t wish this financial burden on anyone.
Bars! I don’t think trans people have to be any certain way, we can just be who we are, or be safe in our circumstances. I’m one year on T in 2 days, I’m very fortunate, but I will likely not get any surgery for several more years, and have no intent on bottom surgery- we owe nobody passing, dysphoria, nothing. Be who you are!
Transmedicalism is such a horrible concept. A trans person who looks and acts like the gender they identify with but hasn't undergone surgery cannot be trans? There are many reasons why a trans person may not be able to undergo surgery that are purely medical. Also: surgery is expensive, and HRT is not available in all countries. Not everyone has access to HRT financially or locally or they may live in a country where being openly trans is dangerous. This is literally not just gatekeeping transness but also class-gatekeeping transness. Basically: if you aren't born in a rich, Western country and with a perfect genetic that makes it safe for you to undergo surgery you'll never be trans? What the actual f-
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u/xX_CuteJuice_Xx Wulti Level Warketing 1d ago
Watch this, bigots hate when I use this one.
Reminder: transmedicalism is transphobia. People do not NEED dysphoria to be trans. People who change nothing but their pronouns are still trans if that is how they identify, this is not a topic of debate but an objective fact held by our team. All trans people, nonbinary people and gender-nonconforming individuals belong here and will be respected.