r/nextfuckinglevel • u/roy-dam-mercer • 14h ago

David Letterman’s return on 9/17/2001

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544 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

259 comments sorted by

183

u/SubatomicGreenLeaves 14h ago

No. Religious zealots are immune to logic.

101

u/stopbeingaturddamnit 14h ago

Yes. Christofascists have taken over the republican party and are willfully driving the country off a cliff to bring about the rapture. Same energy.

33

u/capecodcaper 12h ago

This is the epitome of reddit

Absolutely avoid taking about islamists and bring EVERYTHING around to some discussion about Trump, the GOP, Christianity or Jews

54

u/IslandOfOtters 12h ago

Maybe because we spent the last 30 years being told that the islamists and Muslims and Palestinians were the problem when the people who were supposed to be leading were raping children, enriching themselves, buying courts and murdering thousands of people in the way of their self-aggrandizing egos. Yea, let’s talk about what’s really the problem instead of their boogeyman fears.

21

u/Responsible_Owl4661 10h ago

You accidentally just described the Muslim extremists and Islamic Terrorists. Raping kids, getting elected or buying elections (or threatening others who might vote against them) in their communities for personal gain and profit, absolutely buying courts, putting bombs on unsuspecting children or brainwashing adults into thinking martyrdom was an awesome way to end up with a ton of virgins. No boogeyman fears when there's proof of horrendous behavior from the Palestinians on 7 October, or 23 October, 1983.

Go to Fondapol (French research organization). 70,000 Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide since 1979, resulting in over 250,000 deaths. 85% of those since 2013.

29

u/QueezyPee 9h ago

Why can't they both be bad. Describing one, as similar to the other, is bad.

•

u/AirJerk 46m ago

Because people want 1 bad guy and can't imagine multiple large groups of people working against everyone else's best interests. War makes the rich richer and buries the poor.

•

u/dibship 51m ago

cus that guy is a phash, and super racist.

-17

u/jrob330 6h ago

One is facts while the other is made up bs that you continue to spread. Lies and misinformation is the only things the Democratic Party has going for it. Once again if there was any proof they would have used it in 2016 let alone 2020. But the Republicans voted for a safe society, pro police and closed borders. Pretty simple. The other side just wants chaos.

5

u/Labtecharu 6h ago

Are we saying that Trump does not lie?!

Whoa

Just

Whoa

-20

u/jrob330 6h ago

He’s full of shit for sure, but to call him a pedo is just stupid. And a nazi, and a racist, and that all republicans are Nazi, pedo, racist. It’s getting old. The dems are becoming true fascist. Silencing those they disagree with, even murdering them. And then celebrate it is just disgusting.

8

u/Labtecharu 6h ago

The insane amount of lying should be enough You are completely right. All the pedo fascist rape stuff should not have to matter. He is unqualified enough because of all the lying. The rest should obviously put him in prison once he was out of office.

The lying should already have cost him the job

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2

u/IslandOfOtters 8h ago

What have you done for me lately. How many of these situations are reactive political projections and political manipulation?

Don’t bother talking to me about the 80’s when we were actively paying our enemies to hold Americans for political gain, when we sold weapons and instigated strife for strategic advantage. Our abandonment of Afghanistan the first time led to the radicalization of the country .

Ignoring, whitewashing, gaslighting Americans that Trump, the GOP and Israel are not the core part of the problem is to enable and support a classist agenda. You are not part of that group. Take your self-hatred and go see a therapist.

2

u/Responsible_Owl4661 8h ago

Stay on topic, Sport. Considering Fondapol is a liberal French organization, just reporting on facts, and that the vast majority of Islamic religion based hatred fueled attacks against "non believers" has happened in the last 13 years, what radicalized Afghanistan (India for the record, not the US abandonment, letting sleeping mujahedeens lay.. National Security Archives, George Washington University) in the 80s is not germain.

4

u/IslandOfOtters 8h ago

America has been all about self-aggrandizement and a built-in generational fear of foreigners in the last 50 years. We’ve acted as moral judgement against other countries, in times that were both justified and plenty of times that were sheer corruption. It’s time we look into the mirror. Why do we support Israel when they commit atrocities against the Palestinians? Why do we label those who discuss it as Antisemites when it’s truly just AntiZionism. Why is Zionism an acceptable belief when it results in a regime that commits genocide? Why can’t we criticize these people?

What is so important to ignore our own problems? Why can’t we arrest and prosecute the know drifter in charge? Why are we supporting regimes that are targeting women and children?

We talk plenty about other religious zealots, but acting like they aren’t destroying things in America…

2

u/MunkeyChild 8h ago

The US armed forces are responsible for around 5 million deaths in that same timeframe.

These Muslim extremists really need to work on those numbers, those are rookie numbers.

5

u/Responsible_Owl4661 8h ago

You're going to need to cite a source on those numbers. That sounds like a quick Brown University "Cost of War" quip.

1

u/MunkeyChild 7h ago

Yep, it was the Brown university. Amalgamation of every conflict the US has been involved with. Those are both the direct and indirect deaths. Pretty good score tbh.

0

u/MrYuntu 8h ago

Wish we could cite a source outside estimations, but the US military isnt giving proper and accurate numbers. Theres also Trump cutting USAID which will indirectly kill thousands.

3

u/Responsible_Owl4661 8h ago

Okay, I worked with USAID in DR Congo. They are an extremely corrupt organization. At grass roots, full of idealistic liberals trying to do good in a community. At the leadership level? Fraud, waste, embezzlement. Yep, people will die. The State Department (embassies) in each affected country now have oversight into which projects get funded. When USAID asks for funding for schools, then builds a rudimentary 4 walls, employs no teachers, has no students and bills the government $10m for it, (in the Ba Congo region of the DR Congo) then yes, oversight is needed. That's one of many anecdotes. USAID stopped being about sustainable food and water years ago.

-1

u/PiousDemon 4h ago

Which idiot gave this bullshit comment an award?

Palestinians did not commit any atrocities.

Hamas does not, and never has equaled Palestine.

1

u/Responsible_Owl4661 1h ago

Their current (Palestine) list of war crimes, just on and since 7 October, include:

  • Intentionally targeting civilians,
  • Taking of hostages,
-Sex and gender based attacks -Use of humans as shields.
(ref: Human Rights Watch).

•

u/PiousDemon 51m ago

You're still wrong and now properly lying intentionally.. why?

Why try to spread misinformation?

•

u/Responsible_Owl4661 45m ago

My statements are researchable and verifiable. Look at the International Crime Court, Amnesty International. Do you need me to provide links?

•

u/PiousDemon 24m ago

Yes provide links that show the words Palestine instead of Hamas or Hamas-led.

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4

u/NothingmancerBlue 7h ago

Right on the head.

2

u/Caracalla81 3h ago

We don't live in a country run by Islamic radicals, therefore a lack of interest.

1

u/Doofindork 5h ago

Religious extremism is religious extremism. Whether it wears a turban or a ball cap, doesn't matter. It's harmful and it ruins countries, welfare for the people, and stable ways of life.

0

u/ghotier 3h ago

Islamists don't threaten my freedoms. Christians do.

-2

u/turnaroundbro 4h ago

Leftists have become literally brain dead

-1

u/ghotier 3h ago

How do you figure? Because they recognize that religious zealotry is dangerous regardless of the religion? Because they realize the damage religious zealots have done to our country?

•

u/turnaroundbro 20m ago

You are so smart!

•

u/ghotier 10m ago

So you don't have a reason. Just emotions? That doesn't seem very logical. Seems like you want to believe something.

•

u/turnaroundbro 8m ago

Lmfao touch grass homie. Fucking chronically online tankie. Yea I’m aware that religious zealots are not good, what a genius you are 😂

•

u/ghotier 3m ago

So no argument.

You start with an illogical statement.

I ask you for clarification and you can't.

I pointed that out.

Now you ask me to touch grass.

Are you a bot or a human with a brain in your head?

Also, the original comment you responded to was criticizing religious extremists. Which you called stupid. So I think that you think that you think religious extemism is bad. But when presented with actual religious extremism you think it's fine. Otherwise you wouldn't call me a tankie for simply trying to engage with you.

-2

u/IlConiglioUbriaco 4h ago

Because it's mostly true. Islam had nothing to gain from 9/11 - it was Israel's doing.

-4

u/ronnie_reagans_ghost 11h ago

Christian extremism within our borders is a far, far more pressing issue for us right now than other religious extremists in other countries. Trust me, I'd love to be super upset about social injustice in Saudi Arabia, but unfortunately right wing nut jobs are doing their best to take away my kids' and my wife's rights right here in my own fucking country and I'll be damned if I'm not gonna speak my mind about it wherever and whenever I fucking please. So piss off, no one gives a shit about your made up problems with Muslims.

1

u/Responsible_Owl4661 10h ago

What Rights have you lost? You're demonstrating your freedom of speech right now. That's actually the Democrats position. Removal of civil liberties. Freedom of speech, gun ownership. DSA is trying to abolish the Senate.The press for masks and vaccinations during Covid, and publicly shaming and doxing people who didn't adhere to the litany of Fausi lies... the list goes on.

If you're talking about abortion rights, that was never a constitutional law, so the US government should have never had a nationwide law about it hence the repeal. Left to the states to decide. You don't like how Texas handles it? You're free to move to Massachusetts, where they just signed a law permitting abortion UP TO THE MOMENT OF DELIVERY. Yeah, that's right.

Oh and don't worry, with the socialist democrats coming in to power, you don't have to worry about whatever is going on in Saudi Arabia. You'll be living it in whichever blue city you reside in.

4

u/TheYuppyTraveller 8h ago

You’re rewriting history to play like COVID was a hoax. People like you who just blindly parrot whatever crap comes out whatever hole, just because it finally makes you feel good about yourself despite all actual evidence to the contrary, make me absolutely sick to my stomach.

Easier to think that the whole world was united in a hoax that you were magically able to uncover because you’re smrt, then to accept that you’re just bat shit crazy.

Wow.

0

u/ronnie_reagans_ghost 2h ago

Aww, don't worry little guy, the big scary DSA isn't gonna hurt the senate in their sleep, it was just a bad dream bought and paid for by billionaires who will lose money if anything changes for the better. You need a snack and a nappie?

1

u/Responsible_Owl4661 2h ago

The DSA literally is for socialism. It's the worst idea on the planet where it's never worked. Its core principle is from each according to their abilities to each account their needs. Watching socialist ideas pop up, then watching the capitalists catch on a move is hysterical.

1

u/ronnie_reagans_ghost 1h ago

The objective of the DSA is not to fully implement socialism in the US, it is to adopt some social policy, like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Canada, and many other countries have done to great success.

•

u/Responsible_Owl4661 48m ago

Those are all free market capitalist countries, not socialist countries. If you're down with high income taxes, VAT taxes on everything, then cool. Those are all also countries with mandatory employment. Everyone who can contribute does. We don't have that degree of mindset in the US.

-11

u/stopbeingaturddamnit 12h ago

Yes, yes... they are just bloodthirsty murderers who hate us for no reason. Pumpkin, go read some history on us imperialism. You appear to live in a contextless universe and it's super embarrassing for you.

24

u/General_Luck6573 14h ago

Millions of people have been raped, enslaved, killed in the name of Christianity (among many other religions). Religion in general…. an antiquated method of comfort for people who can’t make sense of the world and are scared of death

35

u/Responsible_Owl4661 13h ago

Don't forget, if a Muslim girl is raped, there have to be multiple witnesses that she wasn't a willing participant, otherwise it's considered consensual. And if you rape a boy, it's okay. jundi rackum tissa. Oh, and it's not okay to be gay. Antiquated.

-4

u/ghotier 3h ago

Which state in the US is this the case? Not the US? Which countries? I think most people participating in this threat don't live in the countries you're talking about.

1

u/ReliantToker 3h ago

More population control than comfort mechanism

1

u/General_Luck6573 1h ago

Yeah. Just a means of corruption at this point. Yet so many followers don’t realize the obvious money and power grab that it is used to justify.

13

u/Responsible_Owl4661 13h ago

Be gay or trans in a Muslim country. That'll get you to the rapture tomorrow.

1

u/ghotier 3h ago edited 1h ago

Do you live in a Muslim country?

Edit for those who think this guy is reasonable: he thinks the US is under threat of an Islamist takeover.

-2

u/Responsible_Owl4661 2h ago

Currently? No. Previously? Yes. Djibouti, Kuwait, and UAE.

1

u/ghotier 2h ago

Okay. So then what country do you live in that is currently under threat of an Islamist takeover?

-3

u/Responsible_Owl4661 1h ago

The US. There's a good article in the Middle East Forum that addresses this: "Muslim Brotherhood’s ‘Grand Jihad’ Is Growing—Just Over the U.S. Border"

The North American Mission Board also addresses the Da'wah. (Nice word for religious global dominance by Islam)

1

u/ghotier 1h ago

That's what I thought you might say. You're delusional.

The US is currently under the control of Christian extremists. You either know you're lying or you're an idiot.

The alternative to Christian extemists isn't Muslim extremists. It's not extremists at all. Which you're obfuscating because you support extremism.

•

u/Responsible_Owl4661 41m ago

Extremists are exactly what I'm against. Islamists specifically. Less than 6% of us citizens believe in religious control of government.

•

u/ghotier 30m ago

It doesn't matter if they believe it. My rights are currently under threat by Christians in our government. Most of the people who support that simply don't recognize Christian control as religious control. You're delusional.

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u/CeemoreButtz 7h ago

😂😂😂😂😂

clown ass post.

1

u/IlConiglioUbriaco 4h ago

google dancing israelis

0

u/ubuntuNinja 1h ago

I love edgy reddit logic. Even in reddits handmaiden larping fantasies Christianity isn't remotely on the same level as Islam extremists. Not even close.

-8

u/iJuddles 13h ago

I said at least 20 years ago that we’d never see Americans go to that level of martyrdom, strapping explosives to themselves to harm people they don’t like. They’ll quite willingly bring an assault rifle to a school or church or mall or wherever, knowing that it’s likely they’ll not make it out of that unspeakable horror alive. I think that’s what’s so terrifying to us, just what people will do when they have almost nothing left but plenty of faith and hatred.

-7

u/w00tabaga 13h ago

Honestly both sides need to quit demonizing the other and blaming everything on the other.

We are all human.

5

u/CeemoreButtz 7h ago

lol, a plea for sanity gets downvoted. Reddit isn't real, i swear...

-1

u/ghotier 3h ago

It's not a plea for sanity. The religious right do evil shit that doesn't deserve to be respected. The sane thing to do is to call out their nonsense for what it is.

0

u/w00tabaga 2h ago edited 2h ago

So more of the same? How has that worked so far?

1

u/ghotier 2h ago

How has that worked so far? It's the only reason we haven't fallen further into religious extremism than we already are.

That's literally what I would ask you. The religious right keeps pushing for Christian zealotry over reason, empathy, or good policy. They've been doing that for over 50 years. They just keep doing it. How has that worked so far?

1

u/w00tabaga 2h ago

Yeah but that’s the issue… 95% aren’t extremists but you’re categorizing the whole group off the 5% of extremists. Then the other side does the same demonizing the other and it leads to nothing good.

The extremists need to be dealt with accordingly but the rest of this need to break this cycle

2

u/ghotier 2h ago

The other side does not do the same thing. When I call Trump a rapist, it's because HE IS A RAPIST. Republicans, meanwhile, lie and say that foreigners are eating cats and dogs. One was adjudicated in court, the other was an admitted lie.

You've created this motte and bailey where any bad thing that happens is based on "demonization,", but anything in opposition to those bad things that happens is somehow in spite of it.

It doesn't matter if 95% of them are "good people" if they vote for fascist, authoritarian, rapists. That's not demonizing, that's just what they are.

Democratic politicians have been trying to "break the cycle" since Clinton. You can't break the cycle with authoritarians who continually move the goal posts. What you're calling "demonizing" is just reality.

1

u/w00tabaga 1h ago edited 1h ago

And I would argue this blaming each other and blanket statements is how we get Presidents like Trump.

I hear what you’re saying and I’m not excusing any of it. Republicans called Biden a creep but excuse this, I get it.

But you have to quit the cycle of pointing the finger at the other side. All that does is entrench most people the other way. You don’t have to like people but you have to work with people you don’t like or agree with all the time, but that’s life. That goes both ways.

Problem is we have two parties that are only concerned with themselves and getting control for themselves, and who they want to do that is almost always who will be on the ballot because good luck if you don’t have backing from a party.

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u/o5ca12 13h ago

How long will it take for that group to start longing for martyrdom? Then they’ll be closer to 9/11’s perpetrators

-10

u/stopbeingaturddamnit 13h ago

The christofacists are inherently selfish and would never make a personal sacrifice for their cause. So many of them whining now about being hurt by yamtits policies. They don't mind "others" suffering but God forbid they be slightly inconvenienced. It doesn't make them any less dangerous though. 9/11 was blowback for all the fucked up things we've done for empire. Read a little Chalmers Johnson.

-3

u/o5ca12 13h ago

I agree they’re dangerous. I’m just wondering when are they going to start pulling off these stunts? So far they haven’t crossed this threshold like the group in this case.

6

u/spudddly 9h ago edited 4h ago

"Religious zealots" is a pointless fiction the country tells itself for some reason. Osama Bin Laden told the world repeatedly exactly why he did it, it was a response to the US's repeated military incursions in the middle east. And despite all the "never forget" rhetoric, the incursions have never stopped so it seems it was in fact immediately forgotten.

7

u/CrazyElk123 6h ago

And he expected the US to just go: "shit our bad Mr Osama, were getting out of the middle east, peace👍"

-1

u/spudddly 4h ago

The US has become so indebted partially due to trillions spent on war over the last decades so Bin Laden's plan may work yet.

2

u/fleggn 2h ago

It was a response to us soldiers near holy sites after Saudi Arabian government ASKED us soldiers to come help. That would fit the bill of religious fanatic in every universe I can imagine?

3

u/Arrbe 12h ago

“More people have died in the name of God than in any other cause”

1

u/fleggn 2h ago

95% of males died out 6k years ago.

2

u/defensible81 6h ago

Religious zealotry is actually the only way this makes any goddamn sense.

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u/AnjelicaTomaz 13h ago

Religious nuts all over the world of any faith are the dregs of society.

10

u/Responsible_Owl4661 9h ago

Absolutely couldn't agree more. Doesn't matter which religion or belief. More people have been murdered, killed or died in the name of a faith than can be counted, over thousands of years.

Edit: spelling error.

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u/Godloseslaw 13h ago

Religion is a disease. Some forms are just milder than others.

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u/t800series 11h ago

The comments section makes me sad.

All the lies we heard about 9/11 and people still swallow "religious ferver" as a primary motivating factor? Did no one listen to Ron Paul when he talked about blowback? Did no one look at all the lives the US government took in the middle east in the 40 years prior? Do we really expect people to not hate the US when the government bombs civilians indiscriminately?

Why do people still believe the lies media spouts to try to cover up the US imperialism?

11

u/hamtronn 10h ago

I get downvoted all the time for saying this. You’re just repeating history over and over.

Why did Osama Bin Laden attack the US?Retaliation for their involvement against Russia. (Yes I’m over simplifying a very complex situation)

We can see the effect that 9/11 had on the world, for the good and the bad. Airline travel is very safe now. You also seem to have elected an alleged pedophile and have 1/3 of you who want to bring slavery back, forgetting that it never really went away, you guys just call it different stuff now. Prison.

What will be the retaliation from Iran when they hit back? How much worse could it be than 9/11 because you might not realize it but it can always get worse.

5

u/Cherry_Crusher 3h ago

You are so confused. Osama and the US were on the same side against Russia. He was mad about US troops being stationed in Saudi.

3

u/Angryferret 5h ago

Can't it be both?

The terrorists that who blow themselves up and the ones who crashed the planes were almost certainly brainwashed by extreme religious bigotry. Saudi Wahhabism and rich backers funded these camps for young men. They targeted young boys in a similar way Andre Tate and other right wing populists do. Preying on boys who felt rejected by women/society. Their beautiful death would lead to them getting their "just rewards" of virgins in the afterlife.

The Saudi/Egyptian movement that led to these camps was a direct result of history of abhorrent American (and British) actions in the region.

I highly recommend the book The Looming Tower for those who want to understand the history that led up to 911.

2

u/Avg_Bro 2h ago

I think this is a very complicated issue but what about when al qaeda bombed shia mosques or when they destroyed historic and cultural sites in Africa and Asia? What about when Islamic terrorists kill cartoonists in France?    Looking at the whole of Islamic extremism and terrorism and reducing their motivation to blowback doesn’t seem like an accurate picture.

Also to answer your question - No, no one listened to Ron Paul. 

2

u/Vast_Mulberry_2638 1h ago

And the current “war” in Iran will only bring the US more of this in the future.

1

u/UnpleasantEgg 7h ago

Religion was clearly the overriding factor. The terrorists literally told us so.

12

u/elise-u 7h ago

Religion gave them the confidence they were doing it for a 'cause' but underlying factors stem from US foreign policies and previous military actions.

-11

u/UnpleasantEgg 7h ago

Their main grievance is that young people go to discos and have premarital sex.

1

u/bornfromanegg 7h ago

That’s not unique to the US. At all.

0

u/7862518362916371936 7h ago

And what's the factor for American soldiers killing so many innocent civilians ?

1

u/UnpleasantEgg 6h ago

I don’t know. That’s not what we’re talking about.

1

u/Aeriuxa 4h ago

I don't think the BS posts around 9/11 this year are organic, I've been around reddit for a long time, and this is the first time I have ever seen this much "it was the tEroRisTs" narrative ...

Either some murican bot farms behind these posts, or the zioNazi regime trying to lessen the hatred toward it, by making people hate Muslims more, using what they do best Lies and Deceit.

0

u/YoRt3m 6h ago edited 6h ago

By your logic, Treaty of Versailles and the allies are at fault for WW2 and not... you know.. the nazis. it's almost justification what you say here.

Also, it's a bit funny that you call this retaliation against America, as if al qaeda were not killing all sort of people including muslims in the middle east.

0

u/Glum_You_6649 5h ago

Your argument is predicated on America being the good guys. Maybe take a look around and re-evaluate.

https://giphy.com/gifs/4Z9fSEFAuxpnlBVWQx

1

u/YoRt3m 5h ago

Oh, the good guys are the guys hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings. nice

I'll say that the US did more good to the world than Al Qaeda, and if you disagree you're the one needs to re-evaulate.

0

u/Glum_You_6649 4h ago

Ur both fuckin turds lol

2

u/ghotier 2h ago

I think you're making something that wasn't an exclusive choice into an exclusive choice retroactively. The Nazis would have had a much harder time coming to power if the Treaty of Versailles was written differently. That is still causal.

15

u/danhunterpost 12h ago

I miss David Letterman

-10

u/thehodlingcompany 12h ago

He's did a cameo in a Mr Beast weight loss video recently.

11

u/crowbar151 14h ago

Somebody should go back in time and let him know about the Zelotry going on 25 years later

-4

u/jfkrfk123 13h ago

Someone should!…. I think the new Tesla has that feature

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u/7862518362916371936 8h ago

But when the US goes to kill thousands of civilians including children it's totally fine 👍

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u/p3p1n0_grnde 12h ago

Fuck religion

4

u/watchitbend 8h ago

Only about a hundred comments and you can see just how fucked America is. Religion brainwashes people, it's that simple. It doesn't matter which one it is. Your god, their god, same shit, different bucket. It's the root of all evil right alongside money, and though I know this isn't going to happen, if we just left it behind, the world would be a far better place. 

-1

u/fleggn 2h ago

Pol Pot was religious? Big if true. Brainwashing indeed

4

u/Dic3dCarrots 11h ago

Well it certianly doesn't make sense, so maybe we could actually learn what the stated motivations were?

2

u/BroxigarZ 3h ago

Let me just...uhhh.... let me just verify really quick.... mmhmmm.... yeah... yep.... oh yeah....uhhhuhh...

  • This has been happening since the creation of civilization and we literally teach almost all known examples of this in 12 years of education that is forced upon us in modern times to....

Hold on....checking here.... mmmmhmmm yep....that's what we were told yep....

  • Not keep repeating the mistakes of our ancestors.

Rate at which that has worked and or is working.... "checks cnn...." mmmhmmm.... as expected.... 0%.

1

u/LOIL99 9h ago

All religion. Every god damn one.

1

u/Standard-Complaint26 14h ago

What about the million Arabs that got killed in direct response to this?

4

u/o5ca12 13h ago

Probably million plural? The response to this was flipping the Middle East like a table

4

u/7laserbears 14h ago

That also doesn't make any sense

2

u/Dumyat367250 14h ago

Yep. But not white Christians, so irrelevant.

1

u/7862518362916371936 8h ago

That doesn't matter obviously, just say thank you for your service and laugh about it.

1

u/fleggn 2h ago

What about all the people that died in the Iran Iraq war?

1

u/Theobviouschild11 1h ago

Why are you changing the topic

•

u/Polyzero 16m ago

Well, the greatest irony being that the American reaction to this meant there are more Muslims living in America and Europe than ever before due to the 50+ million refugees that the war created.

Wars always create refugees, but this ,was by the numbers, the biggest one in human history. The ensuing, massive demographic changes, have incited and fueled radical authoritarian changes throughout the modern world.

All of this could’ve been avoided if we hadn’t been so eager for a fruitless bankrupting set of wars, the very same ones that are still plunging us into ruination.

-2

u/[deleted] 14h ago

[deleted]

0

u/FrontStunning6918 12h ago

Still doesn't today Dave!

-1

u/rubensinclair 13h ago

Wanting a safe space for your uneasy mind, religion can be a refuge for many, especially the simple minded. Because education has been tremendously devalued in these times, we have far more simple minds than in previous generations, and that is by design.

1

u/razorbacks3129 5h ago

Then why is religion down as a whole? And it’s not close

-1

u/YoRt3m 6h ago

This was a 10 minute speech, why cut it to this section only for "nextfuckinglevel"? in my opinion, his words on "we must go on" were much stronger than this.

-1

u/Same_Swordfish_1879 3h ago

All the more reason to tighten up borders but no let's keep importing more of these people.

-1

u/Holiday-Progress6834 3h ago

What about them dancing Israeli’s?

0

u/Dumyat367250 14h ago

No, it doesn't. Sadly, nothing changes. The Trump administration (and American politics in general) is full of religious zealots supporting Israel's religious zealots, as well as waging war wherever it pleases, both domestically, and abroad.

0

u/Responsible_Owl4661 13h ago

Don't forget the October 7th attacks with Hamas throwing people off of buildings, raping and murdering Israelis. The Israeli response was a, "do that to mine, I'll give it back 10-fold" situation.

6

u/Dumyat367250 13h ago

Most certainly not forgotten. I previously lived in Karmiya, not far from Gaza, a popular rocket arrival destination before the 7th of October attacks. Other kibbutz nearby were not so lucky.

Gaza has long been a pressure cooker, so it was no surprise. It's an inhuman way to corral people.

Israel, America, and even The Arab League, have been complicit for decades, and giving "it back 10-fold" will not work, but will merely strengthen Hamas in the long term.

A Two State solution is the only way forward. An Iron Fist policy is not.

3

u/Responsible_Owl4661 13h ago

I agree. But with the Palestinian Authority governing, not Hamas.

5

u/Dumyat367250 13h ago

For sure. Unfortunately Hamas rule with fear, and it would be a brave person who would openly state they either don't trust or support them. Your life expectancy would diminish rapidly and you would simply disappear .

What will disempower Hamas is dialogue and compromise, from both sides. Fuck all chance of that happening, though.

If it were simple, you and I would have sorted it out over lunch.

By the way, I was in text communication with friends near Gaza on Oct 7th. That was harrowing reading and many have simply not returned. I would love to go back, but may never.

3

u/Responsible_Owl4661 12h ago

That's crappy to hear. Same with me with regards to Ukraine and Russia. I was chatting with friends in Chernihiv when Russia invaded. Some stayed and fought. Some left. Some got caught up in it and didn't have a chance/choice. Shitty.

0

u/fleggn 2h ago

Arabs and Israelis were actually figuring out a way to peace. Iran has kept the fire burning and needs to be stopped

1

u/Dumyat367250 1h ago

I’m sorry, this is far from true.

1

u/fleggn 1h ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism

1

u/Dumyat367250 1h ago

I have no argument with that. However, the current Israel government is not interested in peace. In particular, Bibi needs conflict to remain in power, and grinding tens of thousands of Palestinians into nothingness, while ignoring international law, including the expansion of new illegal settlements, is not "figuring out a way to peace."

-2

u/SuchArt504 6h ago

The attack had nothing to do with religion they tell you that so you fear Muslims the attack happend because Americans have been invading and destroying any country they want just for oil and this attack was America finally feeling some real consequences for its actions.

Imagine if you lived in a country where every day you lived in fear of bombs being "accidentally" dropped on your school or wedding or hospital because American "inelegants" says it could be the site of some "terrorists" do you not think it would only be a matter of time before people fight back, I'm only surprised America doesn't get more backlash

1

u/roy-dam-mercer 3h ago

Osama Bin Laden, from multiple documents, justified the 9/11 attacks by opposing multiple U.S. policies and actions, including supporting Israel, which many American Evangelicals view as a religious responsibility.

Perhaps more importantly, Bin Laden also opposed U.S. troops stationed in Saudi Arabia after the 1991 Gulf War, which he framed as an occupation of Islam's holiest sites.

He also pointed to various conflicts (Somalia, Chechnya, the Balkans) and cast American foreign policy as part of a wider war on Islam.

Whether or not his published justifications are the actual reasons he planned 9/11 will never be known, but he definitely cited religious reasons.

-2

u/ya_boy_bos 1h ago

Yes it is bigotry to call all religion a disease. By definition. And especially on a post about September 11, you should think about the ways that hatred of entire religious groups, ostensibly justified by the crimes of violent fanatics (who themselves were rabid antisemites), inspired some of the most significant violations of civil liberties and human rights in our country’s history.

Mindless Reddit upvotes can’t change the nature of your take

-2

u/uwearclownshoes 14h ago

There have been clues that this was not as it seems and that ’religious fervor’ was merely how the intended shock was packaged.

9

u/buddhahat 14h ago

tell us more about the clues and what it was about please.

-7

u/uwearclownshoes 13h ago

The American public needed the shock to allow the reaction, which been immense, often ill-defined and/or misdirected, and above all costly to us and vastly profitable to defense industries and those adjacent.

2

u/buddhahat 13h ago

So are you saying it was orchestrated by the US government?

-7

u/uwearclownshoes 13h ago

Governments didn’t cause this to happen as much as interests did. What I suspect is that, from our end it was allowed to happen because interests coincided. The Patriot Act was passed and all focus shifted to the Middle East, which happens to have a great deal of oil.

6

u/overzealous_dentist 12h ago

reminder that china gobbled up most of the oil contracts, not the US. if the US did it for oil, it failed miserably

4

u/buddhahat 13h ago

> a great deal of oil.

which we always had access to (the ME oil). you know the US didn't just take Iraqi oil right? it continued to be paid for.

these shadowy allegations are always so vague.

-5

u/uwearclownshoes 13h ago

It wasn’t just about the oil itself, it’s about the currency in which it’s sold.

0

u/buddhahat 12h ago

Look, I’m really not smart ok? Please spell it out for me. ELI5.

1

u/overzealous_dentist 12h ago

clues like bin laden explicitly stating his reasoning and strategy, promising that the US wouldn't blame al qaeda or invade but instead would question its position in the middle east to begin with

(which... backfired)

1

u/bornfromanegg 7h ago

Clues, you say? Hmm, interesting. Clues. Well, that settles it for me, I guess.

-3

u/amitkoj 13h ago

Love letterman but that argument personifies whats wrong with a certain section of gentlemen. It also personifies whats wrong we keep getting wrong.

10

u/Xendarq 13h ago

Can you elaborate?

1

u/amitkoj 13h ago

What happened on 9/11 is not difficult to understand. We cant understand the hatred we face

1

u/diedlikeCambyses 11h ago

To put it crudely, it was blow back for being a superpower and doing superpower things.

1

u/Theobviouschild11 1h ago

So you’re saying we deserved it?

1

u/Mage_914 10h ago

The US basically destroyed the entire Middle East during the Cold War, partially to keep it out of the Soviet sphere of influence and also partially for the oil in the region.

Israel as a country was essentially a US backed project to kick/kill every Muslim person in a massive swathe of land and replace them with a US aligned government. Iran used to be doing relatively well for itself until the CIA orchestrated a coup in the country because the the prime minister at the time wanted to nationalize the Iranian oil industry. Afghanistan was engulfed in war that is still going on to this day because the government was communist and that wouldn't fly, so the US funded and trained the predecessor to the Taliban.

Even right now, our military is bombing civilian targets in multiple middle eastern countries. Just a few months ago, in the first few days of our current war with Iran, we bombed an elementary school and killed 156 civilians, 120 of which were little girls. Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza and they're doing it with approval and support from the US government.

-3

u/umbrellassembly 12h ago

It wasn't religious fervor. It was Islam.

-3

u/Teestow21 14h ago

What's confusing you about them?

People hijacked planes and attacked America with them.

Bush then proceeded to invade Iraq because yes, oil, and no WMD and 9/11 involvement.

3

u/BilboStaggins 14h ago

We used it as an excuse to invade Iraq to depose Saddam because he got too powerful because we supported him because he destabilized the regime in Iran. And because of our constant involvement in Iran and Afghanistan, a bunch of former CIA armed militia leaders got rich Saudis to bribe Iranians to let some poor Saudis move through Iran to set up a terrorist organization in Afghanistan.

-5

u/Mr_Owl42 12h ago

Sorry David, but some people genuinely believe in their dogmas. As a pampered, privileged secularist, you demonstrate that you simply don't understand the power of religion and dogma to get otherwise good people to do bad things.

1

u/ReliantToker 3h ago

Let's just ignore the decades of US oppression on the region leading to a population that hates US. Find it interesting the victim is always painted as the innocent.

-4

u/N_Fafnir 13h ago

it's funny how fellow americans are so passionate about the only time they were attacked, not the hundreds of moments they bombed other countries, destroyed buildings, schools, hospitals, killed hundred of thounsads, wounded millions.

Your memory is so.... full of holes

-1

u/Chadbutler11c 13h ago

Most of them choose not to see it. They cannot see the system as it is.

-5

u/LeadershipAfter9526 13h ago

Religeous fervor has been and always will be code for somebody lost money and is pissed. Everything and I mean everything always can be solved by following the money.

2

u/Mr_Owl42 12h ago

So you don't believe that some people have a conviction in life that supersedes the acquisition of wealth? What are you, a Ferengi?

Religion and dogma have convinced people to kill others (and themselves) with no ties to wealth whatsoever. Especially before coinage was even invented!

0

u/LeadershipAfter9526 12h ago

The people comvincing them are actually making the decsions based on personal interest often financial. Religeon is the tool to get comploance and follow through on their plan. My feeling us peopls only FEEL like the reason is religeon but ultimately just pawns.

0

u/LeadershipAfter9526 12h ago

Also money today means wealth. If before coinage wealth was measured in wives than that was the currency of the time.