TIL Kevin Feige almost quit Marvel after Marvel Entertainment head Ike Perlmutter tried to force Robert Downey Jr. out of Civil War due to not wanting to pay him. Disney CEO Bob Iger responded by reshuffling the corporate system so that Fiege would answer directly to him rather than Perlmutter.

[u/Sebastianlim]

https://fandomwire.com/kevin-feige-was-ready-to-quit-mcu-over-robert-downey-jrs-scenes-in-captain-america-civil-war/

[u/makomirocket]

There was a common issue in Marvel, where their "Creative Committee", far removed from everything in an office in New York, would constantly meddle with the films.

There are plenty of examples like this, but the most evident of their meddling: They want to take the music and needle drop moments out of Guardians of the Galaxy

[u/Ska82 → u/makomirocket]

everyone wants a pixar brain trust. not everyone can put together one

edit: changed "think tank" to "brain trust"

[u/mgslee → u/Ska82]

The Pixar think tank, for better or worse, died when John Lasseter was removed.

[u/HustlinInTheHall → u/mgslee]

If you read creativity inc there is actually a strong feeling at Pixar that it died from a combination of Disney culture and the old Pixar folks being so revered that they weren't challenged on their suggestions. 

[u/MeccIt → u/HustlinInTheHall]

the old Pixar folks being so revered that they weren't challenged on their suggestions

See any Star Wars prequels or sequels

[u/ashgs872tbhjs → u/MeccIt]

I think the sequel issue was that there was no oversight by anyone competent in the first place.

[u/hauzs → u/mgslee]

For a ver valid reason though

[u/poopypoopy1125 → u/hauzs]

plus it's not like John Lasseter was the only reason for Pixar's greatness. Skydance Animation has already released 3 films and all of them are below mediocre at best, which has proven that Pixar's success can't be pinpointed to a single person because it was the result of the collaborative effort of multiple people

[u/Angry_Robot → u/poopypoopy1125]

He wasn’t the only reason for Pixar’s success, but we have to admit he was clearly a major part of it.

[u/masterventris → u/Angry_Robot]

If you look at the release timeline, the bangers were on a clear interval. There was clearly an entire 'A' team in Pixar who worked back to back on the great films for around 15 years

[u/HustlinInTheHall → u/masterventris]

Many of the A teamers were developed in house, which helps. They elevated creative people internally and their weird visions instead of constantly seeking new outside visions to fit an IP. 

[u/mtcwby → u/HustlinInTheHall]

Pixar is known for that compared to many of the studios and it shows. Since they run their own software it makes sense to keep the skills.

[u/PreferenceGeneral475 → u/poopypoopy1125]

The entire idea of holding a single individual to blame for a massive collaborative endeavor is silly in the same way.

Both are often used to draw attention away from organizational or systemic problems.

[u/Meta2048 → u/mgslee]

Pixar still puts out some bangers.  They may not have a perfect record anymore, but they still have more consistent quality than other studios.

[u/ohgodanotheranimator → u/Meta2048]

The heart and soul of 1992 Pixar is gone. Which makes sense most of those employees have been laid off or left, but the studio that animated a grasshopper visually demonstrating fascist control over the working class by murdering his underlings with seeds doesn't exist anymore...

Hoppers had a funny avatar reference though

[u/WeNotAmBeIs → u/ohgodanotheranimator]

Hoppers made me laugh, but A Bugs Life made me feel.

[u/TheFirstSonOfTheSea → u/ohgodanotheranimator]

I personally really enjoyed Luca

[u/Jewel-jones → u/makomirocket]

Perlmutter was famously really cheap.

Someone in the office accidentally ordered a bunch of purple pens. They were weird and nobody liked them, but he insisted no other pens could be ordered until all the purple pens were used up, so people wrote with purple pens for years.

They also had this ordering policy where if you ordered an office supply, it would automatically be switched to the cheapest version. One person wanted a big wall calendar for department planning. The company sent a 6 inch mini calendar. They ordered it again, thinking they made a mistake, and got another tiny calendar.

[u/remotectrl → u/Jewel-jones]

Famously cheap and famously bigoted. He’s the reason Black Panther and Black Widow didn’t get films until Phase three or whatever they called it.

[u/shinygoldhelmet → u/remotectrl]

The timing of Black Widow is one of the worst in the MCU. If it had come in phase 2 or at least some point prior to Endgame, it would've been so much better even if it was released as exactly the same movie.

[u/Jewel-jones → u/remotectrl]

Oh absolutely. I’m just assuming the cheapness was the reason for hating the needle drops.

[u/Snowf1ake222 → u/makomirocket]

I watch a Youtube channel called Isenheart Productions, and they go over why movies flopped at the box office.

About 75% of the reasons a movie flopped was because of studio interference. Either demanding reshoots, recuts, or removal of important stuff.

[u/mynameisollie → u/Snowf1ake222]

I think it’s probably a double edged sword. I’ve noticed a lot of accomplished directors go to streaming where they’re given everything they want and the films are somewhat long and bloated.

[u/sol_runner → u/mynameisollie]

You need limitations but not intrusion. It's a fine line, so you need people who are good at that. We argue for more or less studio control but i think we need to distinguish what kind of control.

A lot of these "successful interventions" are tightening the limits on a director saying "yeah we don't have the budget for it, figure something else out" and it includes knowing when to loosen/tighten the budget based on what's happening.

A lot of these "failed interventions" are often trying to intrude on the creativity directly by almost saying "we don't have the budget for it, you need to do this other thing" As if executive dept knows art better than creative dept. You completely lose the benefit of limitations helping creativity by removing the creativity from the equation.

[u/Klopferator → u/sol_runner]

Sometimes the studio is right though. Michael Pillar wrote a book about the making of "Star Trek: Insurrection" (where he wrote the script), and he mentions memos from the studio about the plot holes in the story. Paramount never insisted on changes though, and all the plot holes are in the movie and fans did notice them and heavily criticised them.

[u/skysinsane → u/sol_runner]

Its the way with managers in general. Most of the time, managers are utterly worthless, and you wonder why the position even exists. Then you run into a good manager, and suddenly you realize what an incredible force multiplier a good manager can be.

[u/DeathAndGlory1 → u/sol_runner]

A good editor really does add to the artwork. A good editor will trim away the fat, a bad editor cuts into the meat.

[u/French__Canadian → u/mynameisollie]

What do you mean, Justice League doesn't need to be 4 hours?

[u/moduspol → u/Snowf1ake222]

Not to defend studio interference, but I’m also not convinced that giving directors a blank slate and check necessarily results in the best (or most profitable) movies.

A lot of the best movies had troubled productions and were born out of limitations placed on them.

[u/ryubayou → u/moduspol]

Creativity needs limitation. Jaws and Star Wars (1977) are great examples.

[u/Really_McNamington → u/ryubayou]

Alien too. Very tight budget comparatively.

[u/AccomplishedSafe5481 → u/Really_McNamington]

Left up to Scott, Alien would've ended with Ripley getting murdered by the Alien who would then deliver a final monologue in her voice.

Thank goodness for executive interference, sometimes.

[u/Islands-of-Time → u/AccomplishedSafe5481]

Yeah but Matrix got changed from Humans=Processing Power to Humans=Batteries because some exec thought people wouldn’t understand it. Which is dumb because electrical power was never really the issue for machines, processing power was.

Sometimes they make good decisions, sometimes bad decisions.

[u/everstillghost → u/Islands-of-Time]

This is urban legend. All versions of script since the start the humans where battery, no exec changed this.

The legend started with Neil Gaiman making goliath, a spin off in Matrix universe, where he changed to processing power because he thought the battery plot was stupid.

[u/Greg-Abbott → u/AccomplishedSafe5481]

Lol I just woke up and read this waaaay too fast and thought the xenomorph would kill Ripley and deliver a speech at the end of the movie.

Hissing noises "I AM PURE. UNBURDENED BY FEAR, UNBURDENED BY GRIEF. I DO NOT CREATE; I ONLY CONSUME. I AM THE SILENCE LEFT AFTER THE SCREAMING STOPS. SLEEP NOW, LITTLE HOST. THE DARK BELONGS TO ME." tiny mouth hissing noises

[u/dksdragon43 → u/Greg-Abbott]

... that is what it said. What you typed, but in ripley's voice.

[u/AccomplishedSafe5481 → u/Greg-Abbott]

I'm just glad an exec said no or we would've been denied the fantastic Ripley we got in Aliens.

[u/B_dorf → u/Greg-Abbott]

...that is what it says though...?

[u/Underpaidfoot → u/Really_McNamington]

Not the third one

[u/Really_McNamington → u/Underpaidfoot]

Yeah studio fuckery is definitely a mixed bag with the franchise.

[u/dabobbo → u/ryubayou]

And Heaven's Gate is in the other direction, Michael Cimino was given free reign after The Deer Hunter and went 4x over budget and pretty much killed his career, killed the director-driven movie making model for good, and caused the sale of United Artists to MGM.

[u/mikey_lava → u/dabobbo]

If you give a creative type person absolute free reign it’s always gonna cause chaos. It will overwhelm their senses and they will keep wanting to experiment.

[u/rolltide1000 → u/ryubayou]

One of the main criticisms of the PT at the time that they came out was that George didn't have anybody to say no to him.

[u/tenxsmtch → u/ryubayou]

Or more specifically to Marvel, Thor: Love and Thunder. Too much freedom ruined a decent premise.

[u/ryubayou → u/tenxsmtch]

That seems like the same degree of specificity. But a good example from the other side of the coin.

Didn’t just ruin the premise, it ruined the perfect vibe established in Ragnarok.

[u/Kgaset → u/ryubayou]

I find this curious. It sort of feels like an extension of the Ragnarok vibe. But Ragnarok was fresh compared to his other entries whereas L&T sort of exposed the problems with continuing that's vibe absent actual, serious growth for the character. It sabotaged actual heavy moments in favor of continuing the joke.

I enjoyed L&T for what it was, but I understand the criticisms and feel we were denied a really tremendous movie that could have come from it.

[u/ryubayou → u/Kgaset]

It felt more like Love and Thunder removed limits on Waititi’s humour. Ragnarok had an excellent balance. Then they turned the nonsense up to 11.

[u/newbrevity → u/ryubayou]

And ruined several characters.

[u/evilkumquat → u/ryubayou]

Star Wars worked PRECISELY because there were people who could tell Lucas, "No".

[u/esepleor → u/ryubayou]

I haven't watched that "Jaws and Star Wars" movie. It sounds promising but is it any good?

[u/Azrethoc → u/esepleor]

Scene - Bustling Cantina in the fictional summer beach town of Amity Island.
Jaws Jr. swims over to the Mandalorian.
"I just want to be my own man."

[u/misterpickles69 → u/Azrethoc]

Cue the musical number

[u/Greg-Abbott → u/misterpickles69]

🎶HELLO MY BABY, HELLO MY HONEY🎶

[u/w_a_w → u/Greg-Abbott]

🎵HELLO MY RAGTIME GALLLL🎵

[u/Pyritedust → u/misterpickles69]

Hello my baby!

[u/SeekingNoTruth → u/esepleor]

It's like Muppets In Space, but the Muppets are replaced with a giant, mechanical shark, and the shark unknowingly kisses its sibling.

[u/beapledude → u/esepleor]

Great film. So quotable.

“This was no boat accident - it’s a space station!”

“So. 1100 Bothans go into the water. 316 come out. The Imperials took the rest.”

Definitely try to find the original, not the special edition where the shark shoots first.

[u/lightningbadger → u/esepleor]

You're probably better off watching Morbious, the other 2 can be quite dated by today's standards

[u/CCHTweaked → u/esepleor]

Small time stuff by nobody directors.

[u/Vismal1 → u/moduspol]

Donnie Darko comes to mind. It’s good because of its limitations, the director wanted to include some questionable stuff but couldn’t from what i remember.

[u/MooseTetrino → u/Vismal1]

One of the rare films where the directors cut is actually worse.

[u/Grunn84 → u/MooseTetrino]

So much worse, the edit takes a wierd trippy film where the audience is left to speculate on what everything means and explains everything (and the explanations are terrible and make no sense)

Worst off all he moves the soundtrack around for no reason and always for the worst, its like the director tried to make a worse film.

[u/vibraltu → u/moduspol]

Best limitation was using coconut shells for horses in Monty Python and The Holy Grail. Terry Gilliam really wanted real horses but they just couldn't afford them, and he was so pissed about it.

[u/EddieVanzetti → u/vibraltu]

Same reason the movie just ends with a literal cop out. Didn't have money and couldn't think of a good ending, so they thought it would be funny to just end it while tying it into the joke of the murdered history documentarian.

They also reused locations, having limited access to only a few castles (having only used Kidwelly Castle exterior for the first shot of a castle, and Bodiam Castle for the exterior of Lancelots scene, all other shots of castles were different angles or Castle Stalker or Duone Castle)

[u/YinTanTetraCrivvens → u/moduspol]

I’m reminded of The Incredibles where Brad Bird and his producer, John Walker, were having a heated argument, and Walker said “I’m just trying to get us across the finish line” and Bird replied “I’m trying to get us across the finish line in first place!”

That, I think, is the basic relationship between a director and producer. One's job is to create great art, the other's is to get a product over the finish line.

[u/tenxsmtch → u/moduspol]

Thor: Love and Thunder would have benefited from more limitations.

[u/RooMan7223 → u/tenxsmtch]

Taika Waititi, as talented as he is, was high on his own supply for that movie. How did nobody veto the screaming goats?

[u/timkost → u/moduspol]

The Matrix vs Jupiter Ascending

[u/RooMan7223 → u/moduspol]

Wonder Woman 1984 is prime example of this. Patty Jenkins got given free reign and made an absolute abomination

[u/TheOtherSkywalker_ → u/moduspol]

A lot of the best art in general, is bred from limitations.

[u/RossTheLionTamer → u/moduspol]

Creativity and business needs to co-exist for good projects.

When it gets too creative we get Joker 2

When it gets too business centric we get the later Fast and Furious movies.

A balance between the two is what gets us the great movies

[u/q-_-pq-_-p → u/Snowf1ake222]

Failure bias perhaps, studios intervene when they need to? And, when do you hear about successful studio intervention when it’s often from the creative side

[u/trixie_one → u/q-_-pq-_-p]

Yep, there's also Star Trek Insurrection where the studio notes from one exec came out after the fact, and their comments were entirely spot on in identifying problems that could and should have been corrected.

[u/JohanPertama → u/q-_-pq-_-p]

Actually that's almost certainly the case.

The only way a movie gets finished is if the studio agrees.

[u/binjamins → u/q-_-pq-_-p]

Yeah. Like sometimes notes can be good. Like I’ve watched half a dozen movies or shows on Netflix (which famously give creators complete control) and thought to myself they were on the cusp of being good they just need a little studio help

[u/MinuetInUrsaMajor → u/Snowf1ake222]

About 75% of the reasons a movie flopped was because of studio interference. Either demanding reshoots, recuts, or removal of important stuff.

This sounds like sampling bias.

[u/cabalus → u/Snowf1ake222]

I listen to a podcast called "What Went Wrong" and I've had the exact opposite takeaway, often it's studios pushing back on silly ideas - yes they often don't understand creativity and have dumb notes but those frequently just get ignored or negotiated

The biggest reason movies fail is script issues, either literally not having one going into production, multiple re-writes and versions getting muddled up into an incoherent mess by the end or director's not caring about it at all and just doing what they want to do

2nd biggest is going overbudget and having to just cut around massive chunks of the movie you never got to film properly

3rd biggest reason is shooting location, anything on water or in the desert has a really high chance of being disastrous one way or another

I'd say 4th biggest is studio meddling BUT it's not what you think, it's rarely them interfering with the story or characters it's almost always something dumb like they didn't market the movie properly, they released it in a dead time of year or they demand the release date too soon and crunch editing time

5th is what you're talking about, Studios coming in and strong-arming bizarre changes that totally ruin the movie - great examples being Kingdom of Heaven, Alien 3, Dune 1984, I Am Legend

I went into the podcast expecting it to be the same old story every episode but no, films fail for all sorts of reasons and Studios just take the blame, AS THEY SHOULD THATS THEIR FUNCTION, they provide the money so they take on the risk

[u/GayPudding → u/Snowf1ake222]

The movie doesn't need to be good, it needs to make a shit load of money

[u/thenagz → u/Snowf1ake222]

I don't disagree with the idea but this conclusion can't be correct, in the sense that whether a flop would have been successful without studio interference will remain unknown

[u/Sumeriandawn → u/thenagz]

Yep. People will upvote anything based on confirmation bias

[u/Muroid → u/Sumeriandawn]

Upvoted because what you said matches my existing beliefs.

[u/Pugilist12 → u/Snowf1ake222]

How could anyone know that a game wouldn’t have flopped without interference? There’s no way to know that.

[u/dragonmarked2813 → u/makomirocket]

Bigots like Perlmutter, and he is a well documented bigot, tend to not understand art.

[u/Jet-Let4606 → u/makomirocket]

According to Gunn they are the reason why Ronan was so 1D in Vol 1. There were also rumors of them wanting to put IM in GotG because they didn't think the film would succeed. Hence why IM in the comics was suddenly hanging out with the Guardians and disappointing Gamora in bed. It was ultimately Fiege and his team that allowed Gunn to make a personal film with a blockbuster budget.

[u/Scodo → u/Jet-Let4606]

Honestly Ronin being one dimensional works in the movie. He's got his own motivations, agenda, and goal. A team of losers shows up to stand up to him and he's like "wtf are you idiots even doing"

The main cast is so ridiculous that an incredulous straight man villain having his own story derailed by shenanigans is a great conclusion. Part of why the second movie doesn't work as well is that Ego feels like he's too in on the joke.

[u/Cabbage_Vendor → u/Scodo]

Ronan The Accuser is a pretty great character in the comicbooks, so to make him a one dimensional villain sucked. Ronan is a lawful good paladin, in the vein of Superman or Cpt. America, but with alien morals. At its best, it's an examination of what "Truth, Justice and The American Way" mean for people whose sense of truth and justice is different, and don't understand the culture of "the American way".

[u/UnquestionabIe → u/Cabbage_Vendor]

Yeah he's fantastic in the comics I've read with him (only a handful of things, mostly predating the MCU) so was let down by him in Guardians. He wasn't awful so much as mostly boring and bland.

[u/AwTomorrow → u/Scodo]

I think Ronan works in the end for that reason but he wastes way too much screentime being boring just for that payoff. A better villain absolutely would’ve helped the film even if that joke may have worked mildly less well.

But tbh that’s why on rewatches I prefer 2. 2’s villain actually being a core of the story and having a personal connection to the protagonist’s narrative journey too hugely enhances the film as a whole, which is more valuable than one joke near the end being slightly better. 

[u/SylveonSof → u/Scodo]

I respect your opinion, but man I don't think it's possible for us to be more opposite on this. I think GotG2 blows the original out of the water, and a major reason why is because of the villain and how much more interesting Ego and his relation to Quill is.

[u/idreamofpikas → u/SylveonSof]

Plus Debicki and the Sovereign people. They were fun villains and the opening scene is perfect. Plus Rooker's sacrifice had real emotional impact. It is an amazing trilogy but the second film is the best.

[u/HitmanClark → u/SylveonSof]

Completely agree. The first is a very good movie, the second is GREAT and in the running for being the best Marvel movie period. Ego is a great character, actually a massive improvement on his comic book counterpart. I also think it features a top three MCU scene, when Peter realizes Ego killed his mom.

[u/Scodo → u/SylveonSof]

I totally get that, and there are narrative aspects of 2 that I really like. But it's got so much expository dialogue basically from the jump that it mostly kills the movie for me, especially on rewatch.

[u/Kn14 → u/Jet-Let4606]

IM?

[u/SuccessfulOwl → u/Kn14]

Inigo Montoya

[u/crasherdgrate → u/Jet-Let4606]

Why was Roman so 1D?

Also, I remember rumours at the time of the release of the movie that the post credit scene had Iron Man flying to meet the guardians.

Edit: I’m wrong, it was Iron Man 3 post credit scenes where the rumour was that he’ll go
To space and meet the guardians.

[u/williamtheraven → u/crasherdgrate]

Wrong way round, the Iron Man 3 post credit was going to be that to set up GotG the next year

[u/TimeisaLie → u/makomirocket]

The music is like 1/3 of the movie, that would have sucked.

[u/PBRmy → u/TimeisaLie]

Yeah but licensing that music costs money, so get rid of it obviously.

[u/r3volver_Oshawott → u/makomirocket]

Perlmutter was also the guy who refused to greenlit any Marvel content explicitly starring a woman, because 'girls don't buy action figures' (for anyone curious, 'action figures' is an actual fairly recent made up term from the 60s that was essentially coined as a marketing term for G.I. Joe toys because Hasbro was afraid calling them 'dolls' wasn't projecting a masculine enough image to sell them to boys)

[u/PressureBeautiful515 → u/r3volver_Oshawott]

  actual fairly recent... from the 60s

I love it when someone else makes me feel less old, doesn't happen too often 

[u/RoutineCloud5993 → u/makomirocket]

They're the reason Edgar wright left ant man, and both Jon favreau and joss whedon left after their second movie

The loss ofnwhedon probably turned out to be a blessing

[u/ColdCruise → u/RoutineCloud5993]

Eh, I feel like if Whedon were still there, we would have gotten a much less fan service-y Endgame, and phase 4, 5, 6, etc. would have been a lot more coherent.

He wasn't just the Avengers director, he was basically the showrunner. He hand picked Gunn and the Russos, and was actively involved in the story for every film including rewriting scripts and filming extra sequences. His influence could still be felt through all of Phase 3.

[u/PunyParker826]

Iirc, this is also why the early tv shows (Agents of Shield, Daredevil, etc) had shakey continuity with the “main” MCU - Perlmutter had more direct control over the tv division, and he was frequently at loggerheads with Feige’s department. 

[u/geek_of_nature → u/PunyParker826]

The way I understand it Feige didnt even really want the shows to begin with, with Perlmutter practically forcing it on him. That's why it was very much a one way street in terms of references. The shows would reference the movies, but the movies would ignore the shows as they didn't even want them in the first place.

The only exception to this prior to the Disney + era was James D'Arcy reprising his role from Agent Carter as the human Jarvis in Endgame. That was because it was the one show that Feige was actually involved in for some reason. And then when they got to the Disney + era and were branching out into the TV side themselves, that when they started bringing in the Netflix characters, and making more solid connections between the two sides.

[u/Joshdabozz → u/geek_of_nature]

Yeah, Feige likes the shows for the most part, he just doesn’t/didn’t like that they were Perlmutter shows. It’s why they are all in limbo still except for the defendersverse

[u/PressureBeautiful515 → u/PunyParker826]

It seems Netflix were more concerned with making those shows the best they could be, and Marvel Television (Perlmutter) was trying to cut them down to the cheapest basic product possible so as to hold onto as much of the Netflix deal money as possible. Netflix side of the story.

[u/cmnrdt → u/PunyParker826]

Honestly it probably made Agents a better show to have as little direct ties to the movies as possible. It was able to stand on its own without needing the movies to explain every important detail.

[u/TheBalrogofMelkor → u/cmnrdt]

Eh, I think the Winter Soldier tie in is what MADE Agents of Shield as a TV show. It was fairly unremarkable up to that point.

[u/TheGreatStories → u/TheBalrogofMelkor]

Absolutely. It was painfully generic until the winter soldier. I was absolutely floored by the tie in episode, and the shockwaves of that event carried through the entire show Including bringing in small characters seen in shield or the security council and revealing them to be Hydra

The rest of the tie ins were pretty half hearted and eventually they structured the show to be independent 

[u/Daiches]

Ah yes.. Civil War without Iron Man. Brilliant idea.

[u/edingerc]

So the head of Marvel entertainment didn't want to pay Iron Man's salary for a movie that represents one of Marvel's best stories? Who were they going to replace as the face of superhero registration? Hawkeye?

[u/TomTom_098 → u/edingerc]

Ike Perlmutter is infamous for trying to spend as little money as possible in all aspects. He supposedly also wanted to ration the amount of toilet paper people used in the office and would go through the bins to retrieve any paper clips that had accidentally been thrown away; not wanting to pay for iron man is nothing to him.

Also this is like the tip of the iceberg, he was a massive racist and sexist and is a major reason why it took so long for Marvel to make a female led superhero film

[u/DVus1 → u/TomTom_098]

There was a story about how Feige was embarrassed that they ran out of food at an event that they were hosting because Perlmutter didn't want to spend the money.

[u/Cathercy → u/DVus1]

What did this guy bring to the table that they kept him around? Sounds like he was just insufferable and a hindrance to the actual people making the films good. Did he actually do anything that improved the films or business in some way?

[u/fearlessdurant → u/Cathercy]

It seems you're not familiar with Marvel history (correct me if I'm wrong)

Marvel was bankrupt by the end of the 90s and he turned it around by focusing on toys, selling film rights and being miserly.

He was in Disney's good graces at first when they bought Marvel in 2009 under Iger but became a thorn because, well, Disney can afford to spend.

As much as I don't like what he did during the Disney era, I gotta give him credit for keeping Marvel alive during those bleak years.

[u/Stef-fa-fa → u/fearlessdurant]

Wait so is he the reason we still can't get a Hulk standalone movie, and why they have to play nice with Sony for Spidey?

[u/Mem2Chi91 → u/Stef-fa-fa]

Yes, but those are also the reasons Marvel still exists at all.

[u/RebelAlliance1701 → u/Stef-fa-fa]

Universal still holds the rights to any solo Hulk film, which is why Hulk is a guest character nowadays.

[u/imaBEES → u/RebelAlliance1701]

Not exactly, Universal has the DISTRIBUTION rights to any solo Hulk films. Disney could make one whenever they want, they just don’t want to give Universal a chunk of the profits.

[u/TheSweetestKill → u/RebelAlliance1701]

As a long time Marvel fan, I am pretty fine with Hulk being a side character. I just don't think very many of his major stories would really work as stand-alone films. Side-apting things like Planet Hulk into a Thor film is probably the best way you can really adapt that story, for example. The irony is that despite his immense strength, the character can't carry a feature-length runtime.

[u/TomTom_098 → u/Cathercy]

He was the CEO of Marvel when it was just a comic book company, and they left him in charge when it was bought by Disney, and even though there’s a parent company it isn’t the easiest thing to do to remove the CEO and Chairman.

In complete fairness he came into Marvel in the mid nineties when they were effectively bankrupt and his background in the toy industry did go a fair way to saving the company.

Past the turn of the millennium though no he was a real hinderance to Marvel both on the films side and the comic books themselves. He was really bitter that Marvel/Disney didn’t have the rights to make films of the X-Men an Fantastic Four which lead to him pushing for them to be sidelined in the comics for years in the mid 2010s despite the X-Men in particular being one of Marvel’s biggest names over the last 20 years

[u/Coolman_Rosso → u/TomTom_098]

Not only did he mandate the X-Men be pushed aside, he told editorial to really hammer down on the Inhumans as the next big thing as a movie was in the works. This eventually became a crappy short lived TV show

[u/xrufus7x → u/Cathercy]

He was the CEO of Marvel when Disney bought them and prior to that worked in executive positions since the 90s.

[u/EthanielRain → u/Cathercy]

Those traits are exactly why he became Marvel's CEO. They were broke at that point

[u/WilliamEmmerson → u/Cathercy]

Perlmutter kept Marvel from going out of business in the 90s when he bought it and merged it with his company Toy Biz. Then it was his idea to license the movie rights to the studio's to help keep Marvel afloat.

[u/Bucser → u/Cathercy]

He might have worked his way up via small budget productions where this level of stinginess actually helps deliver the movie. But then Big budget movies have very different scope and he was unable to switch.

[u/username_tooken → u/Bucser]

He was the CEO of Marvel comics, he had no background in movie productions at all. He did save Marvel from bankruptcy, though.

[u/SonovaVondruke → u/TomTom_098]

The dude stumbled into running Marvel from making the cheapest toys possible and a series of hostile takeovers. He had zero interest in making good movies, or comics for that matter, they were just advertising for his molded plastic bits and bobs.

[u/No_Accountant3232 → u/SonovaVondruke]

Dude should have been shuffled off to their toy division after the Disney buyout then. Then he could have used the same dollar store molds to save a buck on toy production. 

[u/mephloz → u/TomTom_098]

and is a major reason why it took so long for Marvel to make a female led superhero film

Definitely doesn't help that like 95% of Marvel's best female characters are X-Men, which they couldn't use at the time.

[u/TomTom_098 → u/mephloz]

True but like a Black Widow really should’ve been made shortly after the first avengers film but instead we had to wait until 2020 for it

[u/geek_of_nature → u/TomTom_098]

In terms of how racist and sexist he is, he only agreed for them to finally make Black Panther and Captain Marvel if they would also make Inhumans. Marvel comics at the time were positioning the Inhumans to take over from the Xmen as Marvels naturally born superhero team as they didn't want the comics to be promoting Fox's Xmen films. And Perlmutter followed suit on that. Feige had been trying to get Black Panther and Captain Marvel made for years, but Perlmutter kept blocking him as he was a complete racist and sexist, only giving in when Feige agreed to Inhumans as well.

Which is why as soon as Perlmutter left the MCU the Inhumans film quickly stopped being in development. Perlmutter was still involved in the TV side though (which side note is also why there was almost zero connections to any of the TV shows prior to the Disney + era) and so got Inhumans made there.

[u/Cedira → u/geek_of_nature]

I cannot think of a Marvel or even Star Wars project, MCU or not, that is close to being as bad as Inhumans was.

I remember watching the first 2 episodes in the cinema as well.

[u/geek_of_nature → u/Cedira]

It was really the project that no one but Perlmutter wanted to make, and even with him it was just so they had something to compere against the Xmen with.

Like even with Eternals, as thats considered the MCU's worst film, you can tell that was still made with passion from Marvel and Chloe Zhao. It just missed the mark for whatever reason. Inhumans in the other hand had no passion behind it.

[u/snakebit1995 → u/Cedira]

I cannot think of a Marvel or even Star Wars project, MCU or not, that is close to being as bad as Inhumans was.

I remember watching the first 2 episodes in the cinema as well.

For people who haven't watched here is a single thing that make it clear that the InHumans show sucks ass

The character Medusa (Essentially the female face of the team) has the power to control her long and flowing hair, it's her whole power, she has incredibly long and durable hair she can control as if it was another appendage on her body.

They cut her hair in like the second episode.

[u/PartyPoison98 → u/TomTom_098]

How the hell do these dumb fucks get anywhere in life?

Rifling through bins for paperclips is ridiculously stupid. There's no way that the cost/benefit would result in anything other than a loss.

[u/Jet-Let4606 → u/edingerc]

According to rumors at the time: Perlmutter was pushing for Banner instead of Stark. Even though it would have made no sense.

[u/themeatbridge → u/Jet-Let4606]

The sheer irony of how angry this makes me is very confusing for me.  

[u/Jet-Let4606 → u/themeatbridge]

Yeah, even if Banner no longer trusted himself there is no way he would submit to Ross or the US government.

And Cap was not going to trust the government because of Hydra so a role reversal with Cap being pro reg and Banner being anti reg would not have worked either.

[u/Tausney → u/Jet-Let4606]

Didn't Banner get yeeted into space by Stark & co before Civil War kicked off?

[u/Kanthalas → u/Tausney]

Hulk being tossed into space was a comic story line by I think the Illuminati (not an 'evil' organization), for being too dangerous. He is launched into space and ends up on Sakaar.

In MCU Hulk just got on a Quinjet after Ultron and disappeared, it's not till we get to Thor: Ragnarok we find he went through a portal and ended up in Sakaar.

[u/No-Juice3318 → u/Tausney]

That wasn't confirmed until Thor 3. At that point we just knew he flew away, not where

[u/cire1184 → u/edingerc]

Howard the Duck.

[u/misogichan → u/cire1184]

Squirrel Girl would be the heavy hitter on Howard's team.

[u/justadudeinohio → u/edingerc]

represents one of Marvel's best stories

absolutely offensive to claim this.

[u/WilliamEmmerson → u/edingerc]

Would have been Banner working for the government.

Downey's salary getting out of control for Marvel. He got $40m to be in Civil War which is 4x what Chris Evans got. It's the reason why he got killed off in the Endgame.

Now he's back getting paid $50m each for Doomsday and Secret Wars.

[u/edingerc → u/WilliamEmmerson]

Banner would never be the face for registration. Not only could he not be controlled by the government, Hulk wouldn't make for a believable front man for less destruction and controlled response. His involvement would have skewed the power dynamic of the story, which is why Marvel got rid of him before Civil War and he wasn't involved in the movie.

[u/warbastard → u/edingerc]

Civil War
In the comics:

a huge conflict with friend turned against friend and a huge rogues gallery and cast of superheroes .

In the movies:

8 people fight in an abandon airport.

[u/fearlessdurant → u/warbastard]

I love that comic despite Mark Millar's current reputation but there was no way you could do it 1:1 at the time.

The MCU didn't have the New Warriors and only Scott and Peter had secret identities. The film adapted the concept well but extended it beyond the focus on identity/privacy into regulation and bureaucratic control of mutates / enhanced humans.

[u/f_ranz1224 → u/warbastard]

yeah, the film sort of has some semblance to the comic. much in the same way a bottle of flavored water might accidentally remind you of a glass of real orange juice. its a good movie but it bears almost no semblance to the actual story.

also minor pet peeve. infinity war is the infinity gauntlet story.

[u/Terazilla → u/f_ranz1224]

The Civil War books are famously kind of bullshit though. They twisted a bunch of characterization to get people into the extremes they wanted. The movie does a better job with motivations, especially because of the twist.

[u/hamlet9000 → u/f_ranz1224]

its a good movie but it bears almost no semblance to the actual story.

Which is a good thing, since the original was garbage.

[u/Bignate2001 → u/edingerc]

Civil War is absolutely not one of Marvels best stories. It's probably not a popular opinion, but I believe the movie, while not amazing, makes substantial improvements to the source material, particularly in regards to Tony's character.

[u/UnquestionabIe → u/Bignate2001]

Fully agreed, it's something that is a cool idea so casual fans are drawn in by the premise but the actual event is a mess. There are some good parts for sure but so so many bad ones, the movie distilled the whole concept into something far more enjoyable and less stupid. It's like how Venom/Carnage were "the coolest characters" for a decade or two (Deadpool having taken that place) for people who have never touched a comic in their lives but are going off the surface level cool factor from extended media.

[u/justadudeinohio → u/Bignate2001]

i remember it being made fun of for like a decade but have seen them making these comments for a while.

[u/APRengar]

"We've found a golden goose!"

"Yeah, sure. But do we have to feed it"

"What?"

"Feed it, like give it grains to eat."

"I guess? But it eats normal food, a single golden egg pays for the feed a thousand times over."

"Kill it."

"WHAT!?"

"I'm not paying to feed no golden goose. Kill it."

Execs be like:

[u/PostwarVandal → u/APRengar]

And then brag with the end-of-year report that show they had zero operational costs for the golden goose! Fantastic! Now enjoy that fat bonus with a coke & hookers celebration! Manager of the year!

[u/islobojono]

Is perlmutter stupid

[u/skywalkerRCP → u/islobojono]

Indeed

[u/sephjnr → u/islobojono]

A professional vandal, like Zaslav.

[u/suvlub → u/islobojono]

And unbelievably rich and successful. They've earned it, I'm telling you, you just need to work harder!

[u/RigatoniPasta → u/islobojono]

And racist. And sexist.

[u/SB_90s → u/islobojono]

He's a documented racist and Trump supporter. So yes. Very.

[u/Heel]

Go read about Perlmutter. Fucking scumbag top to bottom. No surprise he's one of Trump's closest allies, personally funding the destruction of the east wing. He's a mar a lago member, so naturally Trump tried to put him in charge of something inconsequential like Veteran's Affairs. 

[u/undergroundknitting → u/Heel]

What a cunt. I just read he's the one who replaced Terrence Howard with Don Cheadle saying 'all black people look the same'.

[u/Sweaty-Practice-4419 → u/undergroundknitting]

He was also the reason it took so long for Black Panther to show despite all the Easter eggs about him in the early movies. He was convinced a Black man lead superhero film wouldn’t be popular or sell merchandise

[u/JohnGeary1 → u/Sweaty-Practice-4419]

There are Black Panther easter eggs? I must be blind. Can you tell me about them?

[u/AwTomorrow → u/JohnGeary1]

We did have Vibranium prominently in Avengers 2 and Wakanda namedropped as the source there. Possibly T’chala was on the Winter Soldier helicarrier list of people to eliminate like Strange was too?

[u/StylishMrTrix → u/JohnGeary1]

Cap's shield

Wakanda being named dropped in Age of Ultron

[u/Quartznonyx → u/Sweaty-Practice-4419]

All of this in spite of the Blade trilogy, id argue the second most popular marvel movie besides Rami's Spiderman

[u/Gilles_of_Augustine → u/undergroundknitting]

To be fair, I think Don Cheadle was ultimately an upgrade. 

That doesn't excuse Perlmutter's racism, though.

[u/guimontag → u/undergroundknitting]

lmao Terence Howard got himself replaced. He wanted like lead actor money to do iron man 2 even though hes NOT the lead.

[u/Sonicfan42069666 → u/guimontag]

It's not that he "wanted" lead actor money for Iron Man 2. He was the highest paid actor on Iron Man, partially because at the time Robert Downey Jr. was a big risk for a lead actor. For Iron Man 2, Howard didn't ask for more money, Marvel reportedly wanted to reduce his salary by at least 50% from the first movie.

[u/SeagullKebab → u/Sonicfan42069666]

I think Howard is a lunatic and not a great loss, but being asked to take a huge cut for the follow up is not acceptable, and pretty much every actor would have told them to fuck off.

[u/Sonicfan42069666 → u/SeagullKebab]

And according to him, RDJ left him in the lurch during negotiations while he advocated for RDJ's role in the first movie despite his public issues at the time.

[u/S_A_R_K → u/Sonicfan42069666]

Howard was pissed cause he thought that was only 1/3 of what he got paid for the first move

[u/jayeddy99]

I want a no holding back true behind the scenes marvel comics tv show like mad men. From the 60s all the way to the MCU . The stories are actually fascinating

[u/joemc1971]

After shareholders aggressively rejected Peltz’s bid, Perlmutter retaliated. Between April and July 2024, Perlmutter sold all 25.6 million of his Disney shares, walking away with nearly $3 billion. In true Perlmutter fashion, he publicly stated he dumped the stock because he had "no confidence" in current management and hoped to buy it back if the stock crashed. Free from corporate restraints, Perlmutter has leaned heavily into politics. He remains one of the largest financial backers of Donald Trump. He and his wife Laura injected tens of millions of dollars into Trump’s campaign, and Perlmutter remains a prominent figure at Mar-a-Lago, frequently appearing right alongside Trump's core inner circle (such as Elon Musk) during political events.

[u/DiscountCondom → u/joemc1971]

It also looks like laura injected tens of millions of surgeries into her own face jesus christ she looks like she wears a michael myers mask

[u/CaptNemo131 → u/DiscountCondom]

She looks like Mason Verger

[u/chaitalyy]

Imagine almost tanking Civil War cause some exec refused to pay the guy who basically was Tony Stark. Feige was the actual glue holding that whole universe together, so Iger just moved him out from under Perlmutter and let him cook. And thats the exec mindset in a nutshell, pinch pennies now and act confused later when the whole thing falls apart.

[u/Realistic_Comment849]

So perlmutter wanted a story about capt americas old friend being a sleeper agent who killed iron man’s parents. Which fractures the avengers into an iron man vs capt teams. One were iron man recruits Spider-Man and introduces him to the mcu.

But without iron man actually being in it. Okay buddy, guy must have fell upward in life otherwise he would be in McDonald’s getting everyone’s orders wrong.

[u/Fryboy11 → u/Realistic_Comment849]

He’s a MAGA who is at mar a lago helping Trump rewrite the VA policy. 

No one gets a position in Trumps administration because they were qualified. They get it because they know something about Trump that he doesn’t want people to know. 

[u/DocCEN007]

Ike Perlmutter is a dirty racist MAGAt. He was one of three oligarchs creating VA policies from Mar-a-Lardo during Drumpf's first term. He's also the one that said swapping out one back actor for another was fine because no one would notice.

[u/PowerOfUnoriginality]

Wtf how are you supposed to adapt Civil War without Cap vs Ironman?!

[u/Sensitive-Piccolo659 → u/PowerOfUnoriginality]

They didn't want to make civil war in the first place, feige wanted that.

[u/Subject_Offer_9621]

Feige isn't perfect, but the man really carried the MCU despite so many hand tried to destroy it

Iirc, he admitted he was overwhelmed by disney marvel tv series demand too, which is why a lot of series were a mess on top of covid around that time

[u/scoish-velociraptor]

So I googled perlmutter to see what kind of idiot would think replacing RDJ for Civil War would be viable and ofcourse hes the kind of scumbag that supports and works for trump.

[u/Brocky70]

As I heard someone once say:

Ike Perimutter is the shitty movie executive Star Wars fams think Kathleen Kennedy is

[u/sparklinglies]

Ike Pearlmutter isn't just a miserly asshole, he's a racist, sexist, egomaniacal PoS who did his absolute darndest to destroy the MCU and ruin the comics run at the time out of sheer spite and pettiness. He should have been shunted off into just the toy division decades ago, bro had no business being anywhere near the comics, tv shows, or movies.

[u/Thomas_JCG]

Unbelievable that people like Perlmutter were given any creative control. Absolutely out of touch.

[u/res30stupid]

This would serve as the impetus needed to force Perlmutter out of Marvel (and the Walt Disney Company) completely years later, by the way.

You see, Iger hated Perlmutter as well but couldn't just boot him out of Marvel because of the terms of Disney buying Marvel and Perlmutter's job was locked in, so they couldn't get rid of him.

But Perlmutter fucking up things related to Marvel out of sheer spite¹ proved too much as were his increasingly disastrous clashes with creators which horrifically backfired² was proving too much for Iger so he agreed to spin off Marvel Films into its own division expressly without Iger's involvement. Cue the quality and sales of films going through the roof.

This pissed off Perlmutter severely, especially since he caused a major dork age at Marvel with his controversial decisions. So, when Iger was out the door and Bob Chapek became CEO in 2020, Perlmutter saw his chance and recruited an investor to help him sweet-talk Chapek into putting said investor on the board of directors; they spent two years wining and dining Chapek in some of the best restaurants in the world, buttering him up.

The end-goal was simple - with enough shares to be put on the board, the buddy would be able to cast a vote to put Marvel Films back under the wider Marvel fold and as soon as that was done, Perlmutter would boot Feige out of Marvel as revenge for usurping him.

Then, right before they were to enact the plan, Bob Chapek was caught cooking the books related to major losses across the entire company due to his poor handling of the company and unceremoniously fired from his position³ and Bob Iger was brought back in to un-fuck the fuck-ups. And they now had enough proof of Perlmutter passing secrets to his buddies to justify their dismissal.

¹: Like cancelling the comics of X-Men, Fantastic Four and killing Deadpool because their film rights were owned by Fox and he didn't want to give them free advertising - this is also why the most popular characters in Marvel VS Capcom were removed from Infinite and replaced by characters who were going to be in the MCU.

²: The first director of Thor: The Dark World quit and defected to Warner Bros to make Wonder Woman, and Thor: The Dark World and The Inhumans became the most maligned entries in the MCU.

³: Just to give you an idea of how sudden this was - not only was the announcement made that Chapek was out effective immediately and Iger was back issued on a Sunday, meaning they were meeting outside of office hours to boot Chapek; but Chapek was supposed to take a helicopter straight from their corporate headquarters in Anaheim to Dodgers Stadium for the final US concert of singer Elton John who was retiring from live concerts with the end of his "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" tour.

In fact, Chapek was supposed to be on the Disney+ livestream of that concert as the Master of Ceremonies, hence why he was supposed to be going there.

When word broke about the firing, people in the crowd outright celebrated Chapek's firing from Disney since most of them were lifetime fans who hated Chapek since his time as the head of the theme parks division.

[u/Typhon2222]

Perlmutter is also the reason we didn’t get a Black Widow movie until after Endgame. He’s the one that kept that film from being made.

[u/BMCarbaugh → u/Typhon2222]

One of the main obstacles to Black Panther, too.

[u/Greygor]

Perlmutter is also the reason it took so long to get a Black Widow film. He didn't like female leads, the incels love him. I also suspect that we wouldn't have got a Black Panther film if he was still Feige's boss

[u/E_N_Z_A__D_E_N_I_N_O]

Never heard of the guy and came across this.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/ike-perlmutter-a-huge-donor-to-both-trump-gender-affirming-surgery/

Just a very strange juxtaposition.

[u/Spudtron98]

Perlmutter was so unbelievably shit. Every time you hear of a bad decision in the MCU's executive sphere, he's behind it.

[u/SmarmySmurf]

Its amazing how bad Perlmutter's instincts were for someone who got so high up, but its sadly not uncommon.

[u/KingMobScene]

RDJ who started the money machine?!? The amount they paid him paled in comparison to how much they made.

Nevermind the torches and pitchforks that wouldve been broken out of they tried to oust him or recast the role.

[u/MisprintPrince]

Wow what a bitch. Based Feige.